Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
gruntguru
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gruntguru » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:27 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:40 am
gruntguru wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:54 am
dren wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:34 pm
I wonder how much of the tuned pulsing benefits the combustion. It must rely on it if a failure in the system caused it to be unstable.
If the runner length is not optimal for the current engine speed, the cylinder fill will be reduced resulting in a richer AFR. Undesired AFR will have an effect on combustion stability.
But one would think a richer burn would be more stable?
You are thinking of the stability of an individual combustion event. The instability is more likely a longer term thermal, detonation or flame speed related issue.
je suis charlie

Blackout
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Blackout » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:33 am

Some new pics here
What does that black shroud cover (under the turbine exit/in front of the clutch)?
http://f1i.auto-moto.com/magazine/magaz ... -images-2/
Image
Image

Mudflap
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Mudflap » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:59 am

Well the EGT sensor breaking through that cover indicates it is an exhaust pipe.
How much TQ does it make though?

Blackout
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Blackout » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:12 am

Right. but the position of that exhast is strange to me... for a twin entry turbine :oops:

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PlatinumZealot » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:30 am

It's a reverberation chamber. Must be. Probably heavily insulated. :?: :?:
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ringo
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ringo » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:51 am

I think it's the left side exhaust pipes coming over to the right side.
For the right side going over to the left, those run over the top of the turbo.

I think mercedes can have relatively long exhuast route because they dont have to contend with the compressor at the front. As for the reason for the pipes being this long, i have no clue.
For Sure!!

Polite
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Polite » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:07 am

ringo wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:51 am
I think it's the left side exhaust pipes coming over to the right side.
For the right side going over to the left, those run over the top of the turbo.

I think mercedes can have relatively long exhuast route because they dont have to contend with the compressor at the front. As for the reason for the pipes being this long, i have no clue.
Long exhaust are for the pulse turbo compressor.. in late 2014 AMG got short pipes cause their T/C was at costant pressure. But turbo pulse engine allows more Hp! Ferrari got this kind of ICE late in 2014...
Pipes lenght are only in function of this.

hurril
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by hurril » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:38 am

Polite wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:07 am
ringo wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:51 am
I think it's the left side exhaust pipes coming over to the right side.
For the right side going over to the left, those run over the top of the turbo.

I think mercedes can have relatively long exhuast route because they dont have to contend with the compressor at the front. As for the reason for the pipes being this long, i have no clue.
Long exhaust are for the pulse turbo compressor.. in late 2014 AMG got short pipes cause their T/C was at costant pressure. But turbo pulse engine allows more Hp! Ferrari got this kind of ICE late in 2014...
Pipes lenght are only in function of this.
Do you mean equal length / tuned exhaust when you say that the exhaust is long and that this is good for a "pulse turbo compressor?"

Polite
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Polite » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:43 pm

hurril wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:38 am
Polite wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:07 am
ringo wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:51 am
I think it's the left side exhaust pipes coming over to the right side.
For the right side going over to the left, those run over the top of the turbo.

I think mercedes can have relatively long exhuast route because they dont have to contend with the compressor at the front. As for the reason for the pipes being this long, i have no clue.
Long exhaust are for the pulse turbo compressor.. in late 2014 AMG got short pipes cause their T/C was at costant pressure. But turbo pulse engine allows more Hp! Ferrari got this kind of ICE late in 2014...
Pipes lenght are only in function of this.
Do you mean equal length / tuned exhaust when you say that the exhaust is long and that this is good for a "pulse turbo compressor?"
YES! .. didnt know the right name in English: Tuned Exhaust! Thank u m8. From 2015 all the PU in f1 are like this, with a pulse turbocharger (for more hp from the ICE)! In 2014 the Ferrari PU was already there.. while AMG was running a costant pressure turbo charger as u can see in the image. The exhaust is short and is like a gas bottle giving a costant pressure to the turbo; in the pulse turbocharger system every outbreak from the cylinder goes to the turbo and hit it as a single wave! And the lenght of every exhaust is calculated for the right timing of this waves.. So i dont think exhaust lenght is conditioned by nothing else than this!
Image

here is a link to an article of tech about pulse turbocharging and its differences to the costant pressure turbo charger.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.10 ... -04024-7_7

saviour stivala
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:54 pm

Blackout wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:33 am
Some new pics here
What does that black shroud cover (under the turbine exit/in front of the clutch)?
http://f1i.auto-moto.com/magazine/magaz ... -images-2/
http://sf.viepratique.fr/wp-content/upl ... ecture.jpg
http://sf.viepratique.fr/wp-content/upl ... rayage.jpg
Most probably the waste-gates and bypassing pipes from exhaust manifolds.

For an interesting side view of the Mercedes wastegate exhaust pipe below and to the side of the turbine exhaust pipe visit. “Mercedes 3D printed wastegate exhaust pipes” first image from left, click on (visit).

toraabe
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by toraabe » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:37 am

Resonance chamber.

godlameroso
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Location: Miami FL

Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:49 pm

I wonder if anyone will take a tip from motorcycles regarding these exhausts, or if they have already?

I'm talking about this type of resonant chamber

Image

AKA scavenger pipe
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dfegan358
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by dfegan358 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:16 pm

Toto Wolff recently stated Mercedes had setback recently with 2019 engine not producing performance gains that were anticipated.

This obviously not much to read into as I’m sure it will be as strong as ever. Credit to Ferrari though they are really stepping up in power and putting merc under pressure.

Think Ferrari will again prove very powerful with engine next year.

LM10
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by LM10 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:16 pm

dfegan358 wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:16 pm
Toto Wolff recently stated Mercedes had setback recently with 2019 engine not producing performance gains that were anticipated.

This obviously not much to read into as I’m sure it will be as strong as ever. Credit to Ferrari though they are really stepping up in power and putting merc under pressure.

Think Ferrari will again prove very powerful with engine next year.
Do you have any source regarding Toto's statement?

dfegan358
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Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 1:16 am

Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by dfegan358 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:24 pm