2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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RonDennis
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by RonDennis » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:54 pm

Well, I'm not sure if aero was their biggest problem this year. Just look at the people that left.

McG
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by McG » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:07 pm

marmer wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:57 am
Could be that they are still paying for years of the wrong attitude to development.

Ranking downforce as the be all with a very narrow setup window instead of looking at how the car performed in versious scenarios
I think this has been the case. When he was with Red Bull that was the idea then and probably still is. Difference is that Red Bull has complete consistency and not the Honda engine (yet BWAHAHAHAHA!)

diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:13 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:52 am
You certainly don't design a nose like that on a short leash. Peter Prod had his chances and I feel he has been unable to move of from the high drag philosophy that seemed to work in the pre-hybrid era. He has been unable to wrap his head around the low drag high efficiency chassis that is needed to succeed in this formula. Get rid.
I didn't say he was on a short lease, I said "will be".

That's BS, "high drag" was never anyone's philosophy. If anything all the extra PU torque and increased weight in today's cars makes drag a smaller percentage of the overall "performance" picture.

Before he came to McLaren he built Some of the most aero efficient chassis with Newey. He maybe done, just lacking proper guidance or just needs a better team around him. Whatever it is, Stop making shiit up. If I didn't know better I'd think you were trolling.

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:04 pm

Big Tea wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:43 pm
I know we have aero experts here, so without going too deeply into it, once the design is built, am I right in assuming altering the rake angle will mess it up?
Could we have a lack of communication between departments here?
You're correct. Not to this extent.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:46 pm

diffuser wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:13 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:52 am
You certainly don't design a nose like that on a short leash. Peter Prod had his chances and I feel he has been unable to move of from the high drag philosophy that seemed to work in the pre-hybrid era. He has been unable to wrap his head around the low drag high efficiency chassis that is needed to succeed in this formula. Get rid.
I didn't say he was on a short lease, I said "will be".

That's BS, "high drag" was never anyone's philosophy. If anything all the extra PU torque and increased weight in today's cars makes drag a smaller percentage of the overall "performance" picture.

Before he came to McLaren he built Some of the most aero efficient chassis with Newey. He maybe done, just lacking proper guidance or just needs a better team around him. Whatever it is, Stop making shiit up. If I didn't know better I'd think you were trolling.

This McLaren has good peak down force but it loses it in the corners and an unusually high proportion of drag. Doesn't matter what he did in the past under Newey's watch, he has failed to stand on his own two feet at McLaren. McLareb got their azzes kicked by whichever "no-name" chief aero guy is at Renault.. Oh. That aero guy happens to be the other Pete! Pete Machin, who also used to work as RedBull aero designer. Funny. Makes me wonder who was doing the real work over at RedBull...

McLaren signed the wrong Pete!
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

McG
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by McG » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:53 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:46 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:13 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:52 am
You certainly don't design a nose like that on a short leash. Peter Prod had his chances and I feel he has been unable to move of from the high drag philosophy that seemed to work in the pre-hybrid era. He has been unable to wrap his head around the low drag high efficiency chassis that is needed to succeed in this formula. Get rid.
I didn't say he was on a short lease, I said "will be".

That's BS, "high drag" was never anyone's philosophy. If anything all the extra PU torque and increased weight in today's cars makes drag a smaller percentage of the overall "performance" picture.

Before he came to McLaren he built Some of the most aero efficient chassis with Newey. He maybe done, just lacking proper guidance or just needs a better team around him. Whatever it is, Stop making shiit up. If I didn't know better I'd think you were trolling.

This McLaren has good peak down force but it loses it in the corners and an unusually high proportion of drag. Doesn't matter what he did in the past under Newey's watch, he has failed to stand on his own two feet at McLaren. McLareb got their azzes kicked by whichever "no-name" chief aero guy is at Renault.. Oh. That aero guy happens to be the other Pete! Pete Machin, who also used to work as RedBull aero designer. Funny. Makes me wonder who was doing the real work over at RedBull...

McLaren signed the wrong Pete!
Well he didn't get much of a chance because of Honda and a switch to Renault.

As I said, other teams have consistency. Williams are the ones you should be shouting about

mclaren111
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mclaren111 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:06 am

Cyril Interview:
"That's why the main focus at first is on engine development," the Frenchman continues. "Next year, I don't want to have to say anymore that we lacked too much power in qualifying. There's no reason why we shouldn't close the gap to Mercedes and Ferrari with the engine over the winter. With the chassis it will take a little longer."

Let's hope they get it right in 2019... [-o< [-o<

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:55 pm

Motorsport reporting former Porsche LMP1 team principal is likely Mclaren bound.

https://www.motorsport.com/formula-e/ne ... 1/4311185/

diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:34 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:46 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:13 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:52 am
You certainly don't design a nose like that on a short leash. Peter Prod had his chances and I feel he has been unable to move of from the high drag philosophy that seemed to work in the pre-hybrid era. He has been unable to wrap his head around the low drag high efficiency chassis that is needed to succeed in this formula. Get rid.
I didn't say he was on a short lease, I said "will be".

That's BS, "high drag" was never anyone's philosophy. If anything all the extra PU torque and increased weight in today's cars makes drag a smaller percentage of the overall "performance" picture.

Before he came to McLaren he built Some of the most aero efficient chassis with Newey. He maybe done, just lacking proper guidance or just needs a better team around him. Whatever it is, Stop making shiit up. If I didn't know better I'd think you were trolling.

This McLaren has good peak down force but it loses it in the corners and an unusually high proportion of drag. Doesn't matter what he did in the past under Newey's watch, he has failed to stand on his own two feet at McLaren. McLareb got their azzes kicked by whichever "no-name" chief aero guy is at Renault.. Oh. That aero guy happens to be the other Pete! Pete Machin, who also used to work as RedBull aero designer. Funny. Makes me wonder who was doing the real work over at RedBull...

McLaren signed the wrong Pete!
I agree, which is why I said he's on a short leash. If McLaren were sure he was part of the problem, he would have been gone by now. It could also be that they need to find someone better, to replace him, first. Anyways, he needs to show his metal next year, cause the next year might be too late

PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by PlatinumZealot » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:28 am

diffuser wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:34 pm
They probably need him there to explain the mess when James Key arrives.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

RonDennis
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by RonDennis » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:38 am

M840TR wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:55 pm
Motorsport reporting former Porsche LMP1 team principal is likely Mclaren bound.

https://www.motorsport.com/formula-e/ne ... 1/4311185/
Would be great news. This guy has a great reputation and looks much more of team boss than Zak Brown.

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:07 am

RonDennis wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:38 am
M840TR wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:55 pm
Motorsport reporting former Porsche LMP1 team principal is likely Mclaren bound.

https://www.motorsport.com/formula-e/ne ... 1/4311185/
Would be great news. This guy has a great reputation and looks much more of team boss than Zak Brown.
Zak is certainly hiring the right people.

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:54 am

Zak:
James will be with us next year,” he added. “You’d rather have James working for us now than not, obviously.

“We’ve recruited him because he’s immensely talented. However we knew that that was going to be the case and think that Pat Fry, Andrea Stella and the whole design team are working really well together.

“This is a part of the recovery journey and with that is getting the right people in place and that doesn’t happen overnight so we’re excited for him to start but he’s had no input or communication that relates to the 2019 car.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... HIqHIFjEYU

mclaren111
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mclaren111 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:14 pm

RonDennis wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:38 am
M840TR wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:55 pm
Motorsport reporting former Porsche LMP1 team principal is likely Mclaren bound.

https://www.motorsport.com/formula-e/ne ... 1/4311185/
Would be great news. This guy has a great reputation and looks much more of team boss than Zak Brown.

Zak's role is more of the "big picture" CEO.

So far I like all the changes he's made... Seidl would be a great addition.

Big Tea
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Big Tea » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:16 pm

I was reading an article last night and it claimed that Engineers designers scientists etc now sometimes have a tenancy to believe the model over reality as it id so detailed.

(S)He cited several cases where this happened, and I immediately though of Mclaren and Williams. Apparently the detail is so much more complex controlled and available in the model that it does seem more likely that reality is wrong than the model.

If this does become the mind set I can well understand how a car will not develop properly. I wonder if this is why we are seeing people who are allegedly very good being released?
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions