Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
carisi2k
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by carisi2k » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:31 am

Blackout wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:53 pm
According to this https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Les ... 33854.html
Mercedes peak power = Ferrari = 1030 hp in qualy and 980 hp (race - average)
Renault 990 hp and 950 race.
Honda 950 hp and 930 race
But I dont know his sources.
Abiteboul said Renault lacks around 50 hp (Q) and that Honda is around 30hp behind Renault.
If Renault had anywhere near these numbers then why was Red Bull not closer to Mercedes and Ferrari in Q3. The Renault and Honda numbers are complete nonsense. Renault was nowhere near 30hp ahead of Honda because if they were then how was the Toro Rosso faster in a straight line at most circuits in 2018. Even with the amount of downforce the red bull creates it wouldn't lose out in straight line speed if it had 30hp spare on the Toro Rosso.

In conclusion you should take these numbers and Cyrils claims as bogus.

Blackout
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Blackout » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:22 am

carisi2k wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:31 am
Blackout wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:53 pm
According to this https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Les ... 33854.html
Mercedes peak power = Ferrari = 1030 hp in qualy and 980 hp (race - average)
Renault 990 hp and 950 race.
Honda 950 hp and 930 race
But I dont know his sources.
Abiteboul said Renault lacks around 50 hp (Q) and that Honda is around 30hp behind Renault.
If Renault had anywhere near these numbers then why was Red Bull not closer to Mercedes and Ferrari in Q3. The Renault and Honda numbers are complete nonsense. Renault was nowhere near 30hp ahead of Honda because if they were then how was the Toro Rosso faster in a straight line at most circuits in 2018. Even with the amount of downforce the red bull creates it wouldn't lose out in straight line speed if it had 30hp spare on the Toro Rosso.

In conclusion you should take these numbers and Cyrils claims as bogus.
First this is wrong, the STR was faster in some circuits
Second; the STR, since almost 10 years, was often faster than The RB even with the same engine on the straights, because it simply generates less DF and drag.
Third, I dont take Abiteboul claims for granted but what he says here is 100 times more credible than Markos BS who claims "Honda (the 2018 Honda) is now Better than Renault"... maybe the spec 3 Honda developped more peak power than the Renault in one or two qualy sessions (still doubtful), but that doesnt mean that Honda, which changed engines every two gp, has a "better" allround package (race power, reliability, consumption etc). Even Gasly in Brazil (whos spec 3 STR vanished in the race, just like in Austin and Suzuka) said they lacked 25kmh to Sainz's Renault in the race.

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Thunder » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:05 am

Reminder: This Thread is about the Hardware and Software of the Renault PU. Laptime (or Top Speed) Discussion of different Cars with different Engines is slightly misplaced here.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

carisi2k
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by carisi2k » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:47 pm

Are there any significant changes with this new 2019 Renault power unit I wonder?

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Thunder » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:04 am

OK some Off Topic Posts have been removed.

Reason: About 10 cm higher on your Screen ;)
Reminder: This Thread is about the Hardware and Software of the Renault PU. Laptime (or Top Speed) Discussion of different Cars with different Engines is slightly misplaced here.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

Walkman
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Walkman » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:03 pm

carisi2k wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:47 pm
Are there any significant changes with this new 2019 Renault power unit I wonder?
The whole unit is apparently a complete revamp. The design has started in 2017 and has been running on dynos throughout 2018.
The thing is Renault seems to have some power available but the problem they foresaw a bit ago is that their engine topology just couldn't handle it, thus why the Spec-C was less powerful than expected and also less reliable.

We'll see how it goes.

trinidefender
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by trinidefender » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:21 pm

Thunder wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:04 am
OK some Off Topic Posts have been removed.

Reason: About 10 cm higher on your Screen ;)
Reminder: This Thread is about the Hardware and Software of the Renault PU. Laptime (or Top Speed) Discussion of different Cars with different Engines is slightly misplaced here.
I think the moderators opinions (and that's all they are) are misplaced to say that trying to gauge power levels of the particular PU in relation to others is misplaced here.

Analysis of speed trap data aggregated between different cars and using different parts of the track is probably the only means that we have of estimating a PU's power. The more samples of similar conditions that we have, the more accurate the estimate. One the removed posts attempted to use this method by using a point (read speed) that minimises the errors of drag and traction. Please explain how this isn't relevant.

If that is the premise that is set then you might as well remove every post that has a guess of the PU hp/kW. I believe that your blanket statement that you cannot state it because it is off topic is totally out of line as it is the only factual data that we have that estimations can be made on.

This is an open challenge to the moderators to explain their logic why speed trap or similar data is off topic while wild speculation with no basis isn't considered off topic.

/end rant

Webber2011
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Webber2011 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:43 am

trinidefender wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:21 pm
Thunder wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:04 am
OK some Off Topic Posts have been removed.

Reason: About 10 cm higher on your Screen ;)
Reminder: This Thread is about the Hardware and Software of the Renault PU. Laptime (or Top Speed) Discussion of different Cars with different Engines is slightly misplaced here.
I think the moderators opinions (and that's all they are) are misplaced to say that trying to gauge power levels of the particular PU in relation to others is misplaced here.

Analysis of speed trap data aggregated between different cars and using different parts of the track is probably the only means that we have of estimating a PU's power. The more samples of similar conditions that we have, the more accurate the estimate. One the removed posts attempted to use this method by using a point (read speed) that minimises the errors of drag and traction. Please explain how this isn't relevant.

If that is the premise that is set then you might as well remove every post that has a guess of the PU hp/kW. I believe that your blanket statement that you cannot state it because it is off topic is totally out of line as it is the only factual data that we have that estimations can be made on.

This is an open challenge to the moderators to explain their logic why speed trap or similar data is off topic while wild speculation with no basis isn't considered off topic.

/end rant
While I tend to agree with you, forums can quickly degenerate if every querie about moderation is dealt with in public.

Perhaps this would be better sorted through pm's ?

Just my two bobs worth.

Juzh
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Juzh » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:37 am

Thunder wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:04 am
OK some Off Topic Posts have been removed.

Reason: About 10 cm higher on your Screen ;)
Reminder: This Thread is about the Hardware and Software of the Renault PU. Laptime (or Top Speed) Discussion of different Cars with different Engines is slightly misplaced here.
Ok, you removed my post which had some solid points in it and, yes, by the topic's title it probably shouldn't be here. But where exactly should it be then? After all it is a renault power unit thread and my post directly pointed out an aspect of said power unit (real life performance in this particular case) and gave a counter argument to another poster's clearly misleading reasoning :?:

subcritical71
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by subcritical71 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:53 pm

:idea: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula -> viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9259

Espresso
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Espresso » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:20 am

Walkman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:03 pm
carisi2k wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:47 pm
Are there any significant changes with this new 2019 Renault power unit I wonder?
The whole unit is apparently a complete revamp. The design has started in 2017 and has been running on dynos throughout 2018.
The thing is Renault seems to have some power available but the problem they foresaw a bit ago is that their engine topology just couldn't handle it, thus why the Spec-C was less powerful than expected and also less reliable.

We'll see how it goes.
Although Abiteboul doesn't directly speak it out (so political...) he was only limiting his remarks to the Renault factory team.

He said Renault couldn't get more power out of the spec C....with BP/Castrol.
He does not, deliberately, mention in any way that the Spec-C was more powerful with ExxonMobil.

For the spec B the BP/Castrol seems to perform better then with ExxonMobil.
That was a fact he didn't forgot and rubbed it in to everybody listening.

But with 2 different strategies its comparing apples and pears. Red Bull ran the engines on or over the design limits to score podiums (and subsequently engine failures) rather then Renault who took a defensive approach and focused on scoring points.

According to Abiteboul it was the architecture design limits of the (current/previous) engine concept, no further evolution possible, that made Renault decide to build an al new engine (concept) for 2019 (deja vu...have heard this before the past years....)

We cannot call this an evolution or revamp of a previous concept as it's an 'all-new engine' design they started in 2018.
And involving almost all engine components.
"Given the ambition in terms of power improvement for next year, pretty much all of the engine will be new," added Abiteboul.
I hope they finally hit the right concept though, would love to see Hulk and Ric driving their pants of.
Being able to build a new design for all engine components, improved from lessons learned, could turn out really great (...or be a total dud). We will see when testing starts.

But realistically I'd see a season with a lot of hiccups again for Renault.

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Ground Effect
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Ground Effect » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:28 pm

Surprisingly, I hadn't seen below article until yesterday, don't know if it has been posted before, but it's allegedly quotes from Cyril and a response from Marko. I have to say, it's a great soap opera.

https://m.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/red ... l-20181221
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

godlameroso
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:36 pm

Ground Effect wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:28 pm
Surprisingly, I hadn't seen below article until yesterday, don't know if it has been posted before, but it's allegedly quotes from Cyril and a response from Marko. I have to say, it's a great soap opera.

https://m.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/red ... l-20181221
To me, this means that Renault's gains for 2019 are greater than any projected development from Honda's spec 3 engine. If Honda's improvement over spec 3 is linear based on previous data, Renault will be ahead of them at the start of 2019, except that gains aren't linear, and it may be that Honda improves more than Renault, and it can also be that Renault and Honda are more or less on even footing in 2019.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

taperoo2k
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by taperoo2k » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:15 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:36 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:28 pm
Surprisingly, I hadn't seen below article until yesterday, don't know if it has been posted before, but it's allegedly quotes from Cyril and a response from Marko. I have to say, it's a great soap opera.

https://m.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/red ... l-20181221
To me, this means that Renault's gains for 2019 are greater than any projected development from Honda's spec 3 engine. If Honda's improvement over spec 3 is linear based on previous data, Renault will be ahead of them at the start of 2019, except that gains aren't linear, and it may be that Honda improves more than Renault, and it can also be that Renault and Honda are more or less on even footing in 2019.
It all boils down to which of the companies have got the PU design concept right and are able to extract performance from it, bringing them into contention with Mercedes and Ferrari over time. It would be great for F1 if Renault and Honda both crack the secret sauce for these PU's and can go onto challenge the front runners. I've got barely any interest in the war of words between Renault and Red Bull at this point, as it's a PR battle being waged based on tidbits of information that might not actually mean anything given how secretive F1 is. We'll know roughly where Renault and Honda are after the first few races.

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:48 pm

As far as I can tell, I'd say peak power is similar, the big difference is engine endurance. That is how long can you run at higher power modes without burning all your fuel, how much can you get from the ERS, and how long will it hold together.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee