2009 design concepts

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Scotracer
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

Re: 2009 design concepts

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rjsa wrote:Thanks mariof1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The kind of puzzle form that the rules are written in is just too much for me.

Now to the end plates: under the current regs, end plates develop to the back pushing air towards the car center line, trying to clear the flow from the wheels***.

The new arrangement makes this useless:

Image
I love that reference picture. It shows that the front-wings wont look too much different from the current cars in overall dimensions.

On another note:

Image

This car has a similar height of rear-wing to next year's F1 cars (that's a Formula Masters/GP3 car).
Powertrain Cooling Engineer

mariof1
mariof1
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Re: 2009 design concepts

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Ogami musashi wrote: For end plate i think they'll channel the air outer side.

aFaik in the blue and grey area there're no max number oF element.
I was thinking about this... perhaps they will use the enplates as "bargeboards" to guide air around and under the car instead of/in addition to reducing drag from the front wheels?

I'm glad they haven't limited the elements to one or two in that area.

Regarding the question on FI's car in the last page... the 75mm radius rule effectivelly bans all aero bits in that area. If I got it right, the minimum possible size of bodywork protruding beyond the bodywork would be a 150mm sphere or something bigger than that with 75mm of minimum radius. Not that efficient aero-wise I think.

Have any of you tried Google Sketch-up? It's a very comprehensible 3d modeling software. We could try and get the main bodywork rules in 3d view.

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Scotracer
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

Re: 2009 design concepts

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mariof1 wrote:
Ogami musashi wrote: For end plate i think they'll channel the air outer side.

aFaik in the blue and grey area there're no max number oF element.
I was thinking about this... perhaps they will use the enplates as "bargeboards" to guide air around and under the car instead of/in addition to reducing drag from the front wheels?

I'm glad they haven't limited the elements to one or two in that area.

Regarding the question on FI's car in the last page... the 75mm radius rule effectivelly bans all aero bits in that area. If I got it right, the minimum possible size of bodywork protruding beyond the bodywork would be a 150mm sphere or something bigger than that with 75mm of minimum radius. Not that efficient aero-wise I think.

Have any of you tried Google Sketch-up? It's a very comprehensible 3d modeling software. We could try and get the main bodywork rules in 3d view.
I'm downloading it now. I'm well versed in CADD/CAM so we'll see how I do. I don't have any experience with software like 3DMax but it'll be fun to mess about with it anyhow.
Powertrain Cooling Engineer

Saribro
Saribro
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Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: 2009 design concepts

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rjsa wrote:Now to the end plates: under the current regs, end plates develop to the back pushing air towards the car center line, trying to clear the flow from the wheels***.

The new arrangement makes this useless:

So, I'd like to hear oppinons on the following:

1-End plates will be neutral.
2-End plates will push flow to the outside of the front wheel.
I'd also consider: 3-Front wing not to full width, with similar approach to endplates as now. (see also: front wing of the STR3 and RB4 not to current full width)

mariof1
mariof1
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Re: 2009 design concepts

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Nice :)

I must say this software tries to make things easier to amateurs in 3d modeling, so there are some different concepts and techniques. If you get any trouble try the tutorials or youtube videos, although you seem not to need them.

mariof1
mariof1
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Re: 2009 design concepts

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Saribro wrote:
rjsa wrote:Now to the end plates: under the current regs, end plates develop to the back pushing air towards the car center line, trying to clear the flow from the wheels***.

The new arrangement makes this useless:

So, I'd like to hear oppinons on the following:

1-End plates will be neutral.
2-End plates will push flow to the outside of the front wheel.
I'd also consider: 3-Front wing not to full width, with similar approach to endplates as now. (see also: front wing of the STR3 and RB4 not to current full width)
I think it wouldn't be possible. The way the rules are, with min/max projected areas in side view for each of the blocks in the previous sketches, endplates are indeed forced to be within the green area.

imightbewrong
imightbewrong
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:18 pm

Re: 2009 design concepts

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I found this so-so 2009 F1 sketchup model. Maybe someone with better skills than me can update it to match the rules better..

Image
(click for model)

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megz
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:57 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: 2009 design concepts

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Image

I've tried a quick drawing of a 2009 front wing in MS paint, i've made a point in the image wondering if another "cascade" as in the winglet extending from the endplate could be fabricated toward the rear end of the front wing. Also in the top on view in the top right hand corner of the image would teams be looking at making end plates with that same sort curvature on both sides. The curvature toward the centre to direct air toward the brake ducts as already but would team use outside curvature to divert airflow around the front tyres?

wesley123
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Re: 2009 design concepts

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megz wrote:Image

I've tried a quick drawing of a 2009 front wing in MS paint, i've made a point in the image wondering if another "cascade" as in the winglet extending from the endplate could be fabricated toward the rear end of the front wing. Also in the top on view in the top right hand corner of the image would teams be looking at making end plates with that same sort curvature on both sides. The curvature toward the centre to direct air toward the brake ducts as already but would team use outside curvature to divert airflow around the front tyres?
I dont get that drawing. As far as i know you are allowed to drop the front wing by 75 mm and arent there allowed any wings/chimneys on the side pods.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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Scotracer
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

Re: 2009 design concepts

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megz wrote:Image

I've tried a quick drawing of a 2009 front wing in MS paint, i've made a point in the image wondering if another "cascade" as in the winglet extending from the endplate could be fabricated toward the rear end of the front wing. Also in the top on view in the top right hand corner of the image would teams be looking at making end plates with that same sort curvature on both sides. The curvature toward the centre to direct air toward the brake ducts as already but would team use outside curvature to divert airflow around the front tyres?
I don't think the front-wing will look like that at all. It will be of uniform height and much, much lower than currently.
Powertrain Cooling Engineer

imightbewrong
imightbewrong
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:18 pm

Re: 2009 design concepts

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Williams 2009 spec rear wing from testing in jerez 17th of September.
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WhiteBlue
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Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: 2009 design concepts

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It will take some time to get used to the look of that rear wing. The diffuser looks impressive.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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ernos5
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Re: 2009 design concepts

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it looks alright from behind, kinda reminds me of F3... but from the front it's very ugly, next years cars won't look very goood..

I have a question,
About the aerodynamics next year, i heard that it's 50% of this, well i kinda have 2 questions actually..

1.) Will it be 50% of each teams downforce? because each car produces slightly different downforce, and if so how do they measure it?

2.) Next year they must have 50% less downforce, so some teams leave the big wing at the back, but compesate by having a less downforce somewhere else? like what i'm trying to say is are they able to keep whatever they want where they want on next years car, but as long as they have 50% less downforce?

cheers..

imightbewrong
imightbewrong
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:18 pm

Re: 2009 design concepts

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ernos5 wrote:it looks alright from behind, kinda reminds me of F3... but from the front it's very ugly, next years cars won't look very goood..

I have a question,
About the aerodynamics next year, i heard that it's 50% of this, well i kinda have 2 questions actually..

1.) Will it be 50% of each teams downforce? because each car produces slightly different downforce, and if so how do they measure it?

2.) Next year they must have 50% less downforce, so some teams leave the big wing at the back, but compesate by having a less downforce somewhere else? like what i'm trying to say is are they able to keep whatever they want where they want on next years car, but as long as they have 50% less downforce?

cheers..
It is supposed to be 50% of the downforce levels of 2006, but it probably will be more since the teams constantly learn new tricks...

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WhiteBlue
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:58 pm
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: 2009 design concepts

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when they race all teams will have to use the narrower rear wing. The teams managed to dupe the FIA and keep much more downforce than they were supposed to have. some reports say that they will loose as little as 15%. If that happens we can expect a reaction on the tyre side by the FIA. It will depend on how the lap times will look and what the cornering speeds are going to be.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)