2019 performance speculation

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dans79
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by dans79 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:17 pm

lio007 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:53 pm
Part of 2018: August

Source: https://www.formel1.de/news/news/2019-0 ... s-wirklich
Außerdem reizen ihn die neuen Formel-1-Regeln, die 2019 (und dann noch einmal im Jahr 2021) kommen. Und mit denen scheint er auf einem guten Weg zu sein: Bereits zu Weihnachten hatte Red Bull im Designprozess des 2019er-Autos das gleiche Downforce-Niveau erreicht wie im August 2018 ...
That's not a quote, and not even related to the topic of the article so it can't be trusted.

Not to mention its a very generalized statement. For example, you could have equal or even more downforce compared to 2018 because the front and rear wings are bigger, but you could have lost a lot of downforce generated by the floor because you can't seal it as well. Don't forget that downforce by itself is useless if it comes with a heavy drag penalty.

Blackout
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by Blackout » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:06 pm

dans79 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:20 pm
Bill wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:22 pm
Teams had wide wings between 09 and 14 they are not new new am sure they will find a solution
You need to read the rules in more detail. The issues don't stem from the wings being wider, its because they are now required to be substantially simpler.
And less outwashy :D

godlameroso
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by godlameroso » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:37 pm

subcritical71 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:16 pm
Capharol wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:23 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:19 pm

There will be a lot of focus on the bargeboards now to compensate for the loss to manipulate the flow structures. Yes, this will still not be as good as the old wings, partially because the bargeboards can't stop the flow hitting the front tyre, but it will recuperate atleast quite a bit of the loss in rear and floor downforce, probably in expense of more drag.
wasn't it RB or rumours around RB saying that they are already par with the 2018 speed?
I believe they mentioned they were back to the downforce levels. Which I 100% believe. I even think they could get greater downforce if they wanted. As someone mentioned earlier the 2018 spec wing had alot of surfaces dedicated to outwash. 2019's wings can now use that area for downwash in addition to the extra surface due to being a wider wing.
Equal downforce levels, but no mention of drag. I think the downforce will be there, maybe even higher, however the cars will have a lot more drag, gone will be the days of 350kph, and top speeds will be closer to the V8 days, albeit with a lot more downforce. The drag will allow cars to slipstream better, and the higher brute downforce will help a little to not lose as much trailing. It'll work very well on some circuits, it won't make a difference on others, and it'll make things worse at others. It will definitely tip the balance of performance from track to track.

One thing that could be affected is the propensity for a team to be good at a track vs another. Like how the STR13 was nowhere on some tracks but easily best of the rest at others, or how some tracks favored Ferrari vs Mercedes, and vice versa.
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Brake Horse Power
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by Brake Horse Power » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:07 pm

More drag means that the engine will run even more on full throttle? It may not be much difference, but it seams to be in favour of the ones with the strongest engine?

godlameroso
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by godlameroso » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:29 pm

It's why they added another 5kg of fuel. or ~6.7 liters of fuel, which is ~2-6 more laps of fuel depending on the track and engine mode.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Sieper
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by Sieper » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:36 pm

Which is another advantage for the teams with potential more power on tap as this is a fuel restricted formula.

Tzk
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by Tzk » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:27 pm

Sieper wrote:Which is another advantage for the teams with potential more power on tap as this is a fuel restricted formula.
Not neccessarily. The usual pratice is to even underfill the car because the saved weight is more useful than the extra power.

You usually lose less time through lift-and-coasting than tgrough the extra weight and using higher power modes.

Sieper
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by Sieper » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:43 pm

Not neccessarily indeed, but in case all out power is required there is now more to be had. But you do always have to wait how it really pans out. Lets see.

LM10
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by LM10 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:31 pm

Regarding front wings, on a different note, what do you think about race starts and close racing this season? Will we see more wreckage?
If so, this might have a more negative effect on race quality than some would like.

Sieper
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by Sieper » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:34 pm

Much, much more. The front wing (of the one you are overtaking) cutting into (your own) rear tires is always the critical point when making an overtake. Now the front wing is wider in this most critical place. That alone will actually make overtaking much more difficult. We will see more slashed rear tires and broken front wing end plates. And last year If the end plate broke of you could still continue as the wings element were not directly connected to it. Now they are so FW end plate damage means going to the pits. For a new wing (with a lap worth of very low downforce).

It will have much more impact then last year.

LM10
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by LM10 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:53 am

Sieper wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:34 pm
Much, much more. The front wing (of the one you are overtaking) cutting into (your own) rear tires is always the critical point when making an overtake. Now the front wing is wider in this most critical place. That alone will actually make overtaking much more difficult. We will see more slashed rear tires and broken front wing end plates. And last year If the end plate broke of you could still continue as the wings element were not directly connected to it. Now they are so FW end plate damage means going to the pits. For a new wing (with a lap worth of very low downforce).

It will have much more impact then last year.
Unfortunately, I think the same. Many destroyed wings, tires, hence pit stops will massively influence the flow of the race.

GPR -A
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by GPR -A » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:26 am

LM10 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:53 am
Unfortunately, I think the same. Many destroyed wings, tires, hence pit stops will massively influence the flow of the race.
With Danill Kvyat back on the track and with already highly experienced entertainers like Magnussen and Grosjean in good, consistent crash form along with ever improving Stroll boy with more polished skills in spreading carbon fibre, it would be hardly surprising that the marshals would take a lot more souvenirs to their home this year. It's always heartening to see them try and win the race on the first lap. It's a pity that Perez can't contribute to the fun with his atypical close-the-door-on-team-mate moves as his team mate is also the team owner now!
Last edited by GPR -A on Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by NathanOlder » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:06 am

GPR -A wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:26 am
LM10 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:53 am
Unfortunately, I think the same. Many destroyed wings, tires, hence pit stops will massively influence the flow of the race.
With Danill Kvyat back on the track and with already highly experienced entertainers like Magnussen and Grosjean in good, consistent crash form along with ever improving Stroll boy with more polished skills in spreading carbon fibre, it would be hardly surprising that the marshals would take a lot more souvenirs to their home this year. It's always heartening to seem to try and win the race on the first lap. It's a pity that Perez can't contribute to the fun with his atypical close-the-door-on-team-mate moves as his team mate is also the team owner now!
Dont forget Max and Seb, between them last year they must have been nearly double figures of contact through the season.
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Sieper
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by Sieper » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:56 am

Yes, I do think that widening the front wing (and giving it a rock solid / very high / straight edged tire slashing end-plate) and the wing elements being directly connected to it will mean (as a side effect) a lot more critical damage and people out of races (or at least back at the very back).

I would go as far as to say that overtaking will actually be much more difficult and people will attempt it even less as a result of the new FW rules. Which then in turn means that the strongest qualifying drivers/cars are having a massive advantage. Hope I am wrong as for me an actual real race overtake between evenly matched cars is always a highlight of any race.

GPR -A
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by GPR -A » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:18 am

Those arguing about the length of the front wing and the elements being attached to end plates. How often did we see cars aborting races in 2009-2013 due to collision, when the front wing elements were attached to the end plates AND the front wings were protruding out of the line of the wheels?

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