Tyre Aerodynamics

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
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Ted68
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Joined: 20 Mar 2006, 05:19
Location: Osceola, PA, USA

Tyre Aerodynamics

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Is the drag of a tyre on an open wheel race car the same when static versus when it is rotating?
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Hell: Where the cooks are British, the police are German, the lovers are Swiss, the mechanics are French, and it is all organized by the Greeks.

Carlos
Carlos
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

Re: Tyre Aerodynamics

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This is interesting. It goes one step past the aero of a wheel. A study of a wing in front of a wheel and the interaction of the two elements.

http://www.aeromech.usyd.edu.au/15afmc/ ... C00191.pdf
The paper's reference material is also interesting

A rotating cylinder produces lift:
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/cyl.html

modbaraban
modbaraban
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Joined: 05 Apr 2007, 17:44
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Tyre Aerodynamics

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Carlos wrote:A rotating cylinder produces lift:
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/cyl.html
I'm not good at sciences but can my theory be possibly correct (for the wheel or at least for a theoretical isolated object in an airflow)?
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CarsonAu
CarsonAu
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Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 16:38

Re: Tyre Aerodynamics

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i think your theory is correct (but im no engineer/physicist) only when the wheel is in free air, away from any ground effects. (i.e. top spin on a tennis ball dips it downwards).

However, i think all that is negated (if not superseded and thus the wheel produces net lift) by the fact that a wheel usually (hopefully) is running along the ground (pressure buildup on front lower corner??? not sure).

scarbs
scarbs
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003, 09:47

Re: Tyre Aerodynamics

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IIRC it was Thackrell that did some analysis on spinning wheels in contact with the ground.

Try Googling "Thackrell wheel" the F1 teams referenced this when talking about areas of future aero research (this was in 2006 since then the static wheel discs have appeared!)

Belatti
Belatti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Tyre Aerodynamics

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Nothing pops up scarbs :(

Great pdf link Calros, thanks!

Tyre Aerodynamics is something I always wondered why didn´t anyone pay attention, till the (rotating or not) rim covers appeared a couple of years ago.
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scarbs
scarbs
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003, 09:47

Re: Tyre Aerodynamics

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CORRECTION: it was 'Fackrell' and Harvey that did the initial analysis, then prof Xin Zhang, did more analysis.

Rotating wheels have been ignored as they are too complex to model accurately, as I understand the flow around a rotating wheel is produces an unsteady wake, thus the flow pulses in and out. Conventional time averaged CFd coudl not model this properly.

West
West
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Joined: 07 Jan 2004, 00:42
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Tyre Aerodynamics

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Rotating wheel on a ground plane will have less drag and lift than a stationary wheel. The seperation point moves forward on a rotating wheel and the pressure is relatively greater than that on a non-rotating wheel. Katz, "Race Car Aerodynamics, p. 213"
Bring back wider rear wings, V10s, and tobacco advertisements

Belatti
Belatti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Tyre Aerodynamics

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Thanks Scarbs.
Check this out:
http://ltces.dem.ist.utl.pt/lxlaser/lxl ... r_29_3.pdf
Follow Scarbs googlin´ suggestion and you´ll find many more.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
32
Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

Re: Tyre Aerodynamics

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I remember CFD of the CDG wing which each lower element ran directly above the rear wheel and the spinning wheel did allow for less form drag and turbulent wake.

Actually come to think of it the CDG concept was really interesting.

donskar
donskar
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Joined: 03 Feb 2007, 16:41
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Re: Tyre Aerodynamics

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Rotating wheels have been ignored as they are too complex to model accurately, as I understand the flow around a rotating wheel is produces an unsteady wake, thus the flow pulses in and out. Conventional time averaged CFd coudl not model this properly.
FWIW, current Toyotas have small deflectors ahead of the wheels to direct air around them. In addition, the Prius has spoked alloy wheels with hub caps (!) over the spokes that smooth the air flow.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

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Ted68
6
Joined: 20 Mar 2006, 05:19
Location: Osceola, PA, USA

Re: Tyre Aerodynamics

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Dang! I'm gonna need an engineering degree if I want to hang out here, huh? :lol:
Heaven: Where the cooks are French, the police are British, the lovers are Greek, the mechanics are German, and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell: Where the cooks are British, the police are German, the lovers are Swiss, the mechanics are French, and it is all organized by the Greeks.

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Ray
2
Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: Tyre Aerodynamics

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Yeah no kidding Ted! I always learn things here I love it!

johnbeamer
johnbeamer
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Joined: 26 Mar 2008, 07:53

Re: Tyre Aerodynamics

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This is certainly an interesting topic and one that no doubt will be subject to a lot more research as the CFD software improves.

Modbaraban - your theory isn't correct because in a racing car the rotation of the tyre is the other way. Therefore as Katz says, although wheels will produce lift a rotating wheel will produce less lift than a stationary one.

Perhaps more interesting is how teams choose to manage the interaction between the front wing. The front wing is heavily sculptered to direct flow over the wheel and inside the wheel (really pioneered by McLaren c. 2006). I still find it interesting that all teams run a small bernoulli on the outer footplate, which directs a vortex straight at the wheel. The purpose of this is to induce a mini groud effect on the wing but I wonder how this vortex interacts with the tyres.

Carlos
Carlos
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

Re: Tyre Aerodynamics

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The 2004 study: http://www.aeromech.usyd.edu.au/15afmc/ ... C00191.pdf
I mentioned on the first page targets a subject many members have referred to in this thread. The interaction between the wheel and front wing. I'll offer a quote:

"Figure 3 shows that there was a large pressure acting at the base
of the cylinder near the front of the contact patch, as well as
behind the rear contact patch. Over the top of the cylinder, a
lower pressure exists and because of this, a spinning cylinder in
contact with the ground generates lift.
Figure 3. Coefficient of Pressure Contour plot for a cylinder.
This high pressure region is not confined to just the front contact
patch of the cylinder, but also extends forward. Another
important feature that is evident from the Coefficient of Pressure
contour plot (fig 3) is the separation point that is located slightly
forward of the top of the cylinder.
Aerofoil and Cylinder Pressure Coefficients
The high pressure region forward of the front contact patch that
was discussed earlier (figure 3) was also evident in results
obtained for the aerofoil and cylinder case (figure 4). This high
pressure region acts on the bottom surface of the aerofoil and for
this reason the aerofoil was generating lift as opposed to the
desired downforce. This could potentially be the reason why the
front wings on F1 cars have had a reduced span after the
regulation changes imposed for the 1998 season. The regulation
changes required that the maximum width of the car be reduced
from 200cm to 180cm and this would have further increased the
interaction between the front wheel and wing.
Similarly, this is the reason that the aerofoil was experiencing a
forward force, or a negative drag, in most positions tested in the
presence of the cylinder. As the angle of attack was increased ..."