FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
factory_p
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:04 am

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by factory_p » Mon May 20, 2019 9:41 am

roon wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 6:09 pm
factory_p wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:47 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 10:21 am
It's not a power struggle. It's coming out of F1 strategy group meetings which is the teams, FOM and the FIA. All parties are in agreement to standardize non-performance differentiating parts.
Or it's a political move from the FIA to pressurize teams on some other topics. Like "see guys? We are ready to proceed with it. We have a manufacturer and all. So either you agree to ban this or that technology to reduce cost, or we impose a standard gearbox"
Banning tech doesn't affect a team's expenditures. What is saved in manufacturing cost finds its way to R&D. Look at the current engine formula. Yes, far fewer engines are used per year, but their development cost is likely comparable to the price of buying forty or so NA V10s per year.

Another example is bodywork. Simplifying it via regulations has no effect on an R&D budget which intends to make a fast car.
You don't need to convince me here, I'm with you on this. Unfortunately I don't believe the FIA is reading us...

Dr. Acula
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Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by Dr. Acula » Tue May 21, 2019 1:09 pm

roon wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 6:09 pm
Banning tech doesn't affect a team's expenditures. What is saved in manufacturing cost finds its way to R&D. Look at the current engine formula. Yes, far fewer engines are used per year, but their development cost is likely comparable to the price of buying forty or so NA V10s per year.

Another example is bodywork. Simplifying it via regulations has no effect on an R&D budget which intends to make a fast car.
Well i think there are two ways to look at it. For the factory teams i'm with you, it will make no difference. But for the customer teams it could make things a little easier. Many customer teams actually buy the gearbox from their engine supplier. If they can get the gearboxes for 2$ or 3$ million less per year, it will help them. Not much, but it will help.

I mean one of the main problems F1 has at the moment is simply the insane base costs for a team to even be able to take part in the series. A team needs a budget of about 100$ million per year just to stay a float and that in my opinion is simply to much.

Xwang
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by Xwang » Tue May 21, 2019 1:46 pm

According to me with standardization and out sourcing teams and their staff will lose knowledge of how to do certain things becoming more and more tied to external entities.
IMHO it is a bad thing for F1.

Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by Zynerji » Tue May 21, 2019 3:56 pm

Xwang wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 1:46 pm
According to me with standardization and out sourcing teams and their staff will lose knowledge of how to do certain things becoming more and more tied to external entities.
IMHO it is a bad thing for F1.
I mean, unless this drives the third parties to compete with bids, thus lowering the costs for everyone. You know, capitalism.

Just_a_fan
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue May 21, 2019 7:35 pm

Many people lose their jobs because of it. You know, capitalism.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Dr. Acula
34
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by Dr. Acula » Tue May 21, 2019 8:46 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:35 pm
Many people lose their jobs because of it. You know, capitalism.
When whole teams have to shut down because of rampant costs, even more people lose their jobs. You know, choosing the lesser evil.
Also, you do realise that new jobs may be created somewhere else because of it? I mean Xtrac for instance can't produce gearboxes just by magic.

Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by Zynerji » Tue May 21, 2019 9:00 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:35 pm
Many people lose their jobs because of it. You know, capitalism.
A job lost in F1 might open a dozen jobs in the private sector. Pre-judging the effects is a bit short sighted without the data.

Just_a_fan
468
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue May 21, 2019 9:37 pm

Several teams designing and building their own gearboxes vs one company designing and building a single design of gearbox? The single company will need fewer people, at least in the design section, if not in all areas. That's just obvious.

Oh, and F1 is "the private sector".
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Zynerji
60
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by Zynerji » Tue May 21, 2019 9:42 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:37 pm
Several teams designing and building their own gearboxes vs one company designing and building a single design of gearbox? The single company will need fewer people, at least in the design section, if not in all areas. That's just obvious.

Oh, and F1 is "the private sector".
The single company needs to supply for 10 teams, so one would expect their team to be larger than any singular F1 team...

Also, F1 is obviously the private sector (non govt), I was obviously short-cutting the understanding to mean any other free-market company.


What is your real problem with cost-cutting, intelligent synergies being put into F1? Do you have family members that will be out of work?

Just_a_fan
468
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue May 21, 2019 11:03 pm

A single company will be able to supply 10 teams with fewer employees than can 10 teams working individually. The teams have a lot of replication as there are 10 lots of designers etc. A single company can do the whole lot with fewer people.

As to "what's my problem?", I guess I just find it annoying how people are so easily thrown away in the name of money.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Zynerji
60
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by Zynerji » Tue May 21, 2019 11:25 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 11:03 pm
A single company will be able to supply 10 teams with fewer employees than can 10 teams working individually. The teams have a lot of replication as there are 10 lots of designers etc. A single company can do the whole lot with fewer people.

As to "what's my problem?", I guess I just find it annoying how people are so easily thrown away in the name of money.
Cost-cutting will always cost jobs. Why would you ever believe otherwise?

Just_a_fan
468
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed May 22, 2019 12:09 am

Zynerji wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 11:25 pm

Cost-cutting will always cost jobs. Why would you ever believe otherwise?
It's not cost cutting then, is it? It's cost moving. The cost is moved from the money man (who makes nothing, just bets with other people's ones and zeros) and on to the little man (who actually makes stuff and is "the economy").

Why do people still think it's acceptable to treat other people as expendible resources? This isn't a game, it's people's lives.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Maritimer
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Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:45 pm
Location: Canada

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by Maritimer » Wed May 22, 2019 12:11 am

Arent there already only two or three suppliers who actually make the gear clusters and just sell them to the teams?

Zynerji
60
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by Zynerji » Wed May 22, 2019 12:11 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 12:09 am
Zynerji wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 11:25 pm

Cost-cutting will always cost jobs. Why would you ever believe otherwise?
It's not cost cutting then, is it? It's cost moving. The cost is moved from the money man (who makes nothing, just bets with other people's ones and zeros) and on to the little man (who actually makes stuff and is "the economy").

Why do people still think it's acceptable to treat other people as expendible resources? This isn't a game, it's people's lives.
No, its a business.

I'm sure that the largest team cost when you have 1000 employees is labor. Cut labor by outsourcing, save lots of money.

I find it odd that you see F1 as a Job Charity.

Just_a_fan
468
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: FIA tender for standard F1 gearboxes

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed May 22, 2019 12:24 am

Zynerji wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 12:11 am
Cut labor by outsourcing, save lots of money.
How much of that money is yours?

How much do you pay F1?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"