Williams FW42

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
netoperek
43
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:06 pm

Re: Williams FW42

Post by netoperek » Fri May 10, 2019 10:28 am

Claire said they're considering buying gearboxes now, as this has been one of their reasons for slow season start once again.

madly
7
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:20 pm

Re: Williams FW42

Post by madly » Fri May 10, 2019 12:39 pm

See how different is this section in Williams comparing to others. How much more drag it could have and how much it is reversing air flow.

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bill shoe
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Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Re: Williams FW42

Post by bill shoe » Fri May 10, 2019 2:07 pm

netoperek wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 10:28 am
Claire said they're considering buying gearboxes now, as this has been one of their reasons for slow season start once again.
They may as well ramp their gearbox group down to where they only have the capability for the external case, since that's where it will end up for 2021 anyway.

Yes, the bargeboard area on the Williams is much simpler and very different than any other car. The parts do not look like anything that aero people would voluntarily design themselves. The parts look like the product of a dysfunctional working relationship between lower-level aero designers and higher-level management, where the lower-level people feel micromanaged and the upper-level people feel like there is a lack of any systematic plan to test and develop things in the proper way. After long frustrating meetings they end up with rectangular pieces of cardboard normal to the airflow.

Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Williams FW42

Post by Zynerji » Fri May 10, 2019 4:12 pm

bill shoe wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 2:07 pm
netoperek wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 10:28 am
Claire said they're considering buying gearboxes now, as this has been one of their reasons for slow season start once again.
They may as well ramp their gearbox group down to where they only have the capability for the external case, since that's where it will end up for 2021 anyway.

Yes, the bargeboard area on the Williams is much simpler and very different than any other car. The parts do not look like anything that aero people would voluntarily design themselves. The parts look like the product of a dysfunctional working relationship between lower-level aero designers and higher-level management, where the lower-level people feel micromanaged and the upper-level people feel like there is a lack of any systematic plan to test and develop things in the proper way. After long frustrating meetings they end up with rectangular pieces of cardboard normal to the airflow.
George said in an interview that they have various tests peices they were fitting during practice just to validate the Improvement Direction. Many of these are temporary pieces are just to measure the difference between before and after. I expect that they will evolve into finished carbon pieces, and the current 3D printed test pieces will be discarded.

Coefficient
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Location: North West - UK

Re: Williams FW42

Post by Coefficient » Fri May 10, 2019 7:10 pm

Cricket,

The Wiiliams barge board array would have looked basic in 2017.

I know some will say simplicity doesn't indicate limited performance necessarily and I take the point. However, I believe Mercedes and others may be onto something with their hugely complex concepts, given the performance differential.
"I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it".

Moctecus
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Re: Williams FW42

Post by Moctecus » Fri May 10, 2019 8:58 pm

It's not like Williams missed this trend towards ever more complex bargeboards.
The FW41 actually had one of the most complex bargeboards last season:

Image

And it was the worst car on the grid.

Tzk
18
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:49 am

Re: Williams FW42

Post by Tzk » Fri May 10, 2019 10:15 pm

Just a guess, but maybe they got correlation issues between cfd, windtunnel and track?

Has anyone heard about such an issue?

godlameroso
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Location: Miami FL

Re: Williams FW42

Post by godlameroso » Sat May 11, 2019 2:43 am

Moctecus wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:58 pm
It's not like Williams missed this trend towards ever more complex bargeboards.
The FW41 actually had one of the most complex bargeboards last season:

https://i.imgur.com/qbVIyc6.jpg

And it was the worst car on the grid.
Its not the complexity but the geometry, particularly where the foot plate and verical section meet, towards the edge of the bargeboard assembly. That area is critical for the performance of the floor.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

netoperek
43
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:06 pm

Re: Williams FW42

Post by netoperek » Sat May 11, 2019 3:01 am

Tzk wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 10:15 pm
Just a guess, but maybe they got correlation issues between cfd, windtunnel and track?

Has anyone heard about such an issue?
Yeah, that has been pointed out as the reason for last year's failure. FW41 apparently has been a beast in simulations :P

Greg_OR
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Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:09 am
Location: Wroclaw, Poland

Re: Williams FW42

Post by Greg_OR » Tue May 14, 2019 9:27 pm

Tzk wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 10:15 pm
Just a guess, but maybe they got correlation issues between cfd, windtunnel and track?
Has anyone heard about such an issue?
Last year there was an interview with Paddy Lowe where he exactly pointed out that they failed when upgraded ground surface in wind tunnel (surface simulating tarmac)
there is also M Hughes light on the subject: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... e-williams

Drica
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Re: Williams FW42

Post by Drica » Wed May 22, 2019 7:47 pm

So this may be more suitable for the team thread but something really caught my eye.
There is this video on youtube which has the onboards from Barcelona T9 from every car. Kubica's approach to the turn was completely different to Russell's, to the extent that Kubica braked on entry, thus had some 20kph lower apex speed to Russell who had only lifted prior to the apex.
Is it possible that the chassis characteristics are so different between the two cars(even if Williams claims that they are to the same spec) that Kubica just can't trust the car, or he just isn't able to drive the car properly? I mean, if it's down to the chassis then that is a huge shame for Williams, but if it's Kubica's fault, what can the team do...

Here is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZjTGSUWgtc

Dipesh1995
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Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: Williams FW42

Post by Dipesh1995 » Wed May 22, 2019 8:13 pm

Drica wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 7:47 pm
So this may be more suitable for the team thread but something really caught my eye.
There is this video on youtube which has the onboards from Barcelona T9 from every car. Kubica's approach to the turn was completely different to Russell's, to the extent that Kubica braked on entry, thus had some 20kph lower apex speed to Russell who had only lifted prior to the apex.
Is it possible that the chassis characteristics are so different between the two cars(even if Williams claims that they are to the same spec) that Kubica just can't trust the car, or he just isn't able to drive the car properly? I mean, if it's down to the chassis then that is a huge shame for Williams, but if it's Kubica's fault, what can the team do...

Here is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZjTGSUWgtc
Didn't Williams swap the chassis' for the two drivers at some point? If so, it hasn't made much difference. Personally, I think it's down to Kubica.

bill shoe
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Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Re: Williams FW42

Post by bill shoe » Wed May 22, 2019 10:16 pm

I thought the chassis swap confirmed Russell's car was better, and supposedly they still can't determine why the difference exists.

But for sure, as Drica implied, either the team is performing unacceptably in their ability to prepare consistent cars, or Kubica is performing unacceptably in his ability to drive the car.

wesley123
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Re: Williams FW42

Post by wesley123 » Thu May 23, 2019 12:22 am

wasn't Russell's Q1 performance just really good? Afaik the gap in front of him was much smaller than before.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

netoperek
43
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:06 pm

Re: Williams FW42

Post by netoperek » Thu May 23, 2019 12:33 am

There are all sorts of problems with those cars. It has been a combo of broken floor and monocoque with huge stiffness problems. If You look at virtually all of this years onboards, You'll see Kubica has to fight the car where Russel could go faster quite comfortably.