2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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Edax
Edax
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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First of all I don’t think their was any bad intention from Vet, that car was sliding all over the place coming off the grass.

That said I don’t think the penalty was particularly harsh. Lewis lost 3.5 seconds having to get of the gas, the penalty was five seconds. So effectively Vettel got a penalty of 1.5 seconds.

It was not like they took the first place away from him. They just gave him an extra challenge, to keep his place, and unfortunately for him Ham did a better job.

But I understand his frustration. And in a way I think it is good. I haven’t seen Vet this spirited in a long time. It looks like Merc and Ham are going to roll over the championship, but I do expect some inspired fights from Vet in the coming races.

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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wickedz50 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:18 pm
Is this penalty appealable? looks like Ferrari and many other teams have appealed such cases but FAILED!
it's an in race penalty, so no, not appealable.

komninosm
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:09 pm
For all the talk of no other options, SV could easily have later backed off and let LH past in order to redress for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. Therefore no controversial penalty would be required.
Could he though? :wink:

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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komninosm wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:26 pm
JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:09 pm
For all the talk of no other options, SV could easily have later backed off and let LH past in order to redress for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. Therefore no controversial penalty would be required.
Could he though? :wink:
if.... if... he was penalised for leaving the track and gaining an advantage, for which he was not.

Xwang
Xwang
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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Jolle wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:23 pm
wickedz50 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:18 pm
Is this penalty appealable? looks like Ferrari and many other teams have appealed such cases but FAILED!
it's an in race penalty, so no, not appealable.
Italian Sky has just said that Ferrari has appelled.
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

zeph
zeph
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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What a terrible decision. Technically correct, but really against the spirit of racing.

To be fair, Hamilton forced Vettel into the mistake, so from that perspective I can see why the penalty is deserved. But still, it does not feel good.

dans79
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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komninosm wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:26 pm
JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:09 pm
For all the talk of no other options, SV could easily have later backed off and let LH past in order to redress for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. Therefore no controversial penalty would be required.
Could he though? :wink:
Not to mention he didn't get a penalty for gaining an unfair advantage, he got a penalty for returning to the tract in an unsafe manner.
164 98 95 7

komninosm
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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atanatizante wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:16 pm
Nonetheless, Vettel had he would he won it seems that he should have been penalised for having a lower fuel level than the minimum allowed ... after the race for testing
Do you mean Vettel was on foot and pushing his car in the end because he ran out of fuel?

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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Xwang wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:29 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:23 pm
wickedz50 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:18 pm
Is this penalty appealable? looks like Ferrari and many other teams have appealed such cases but FAILED!
it's an in race penalty, so no, not appealable.
Italian Sky has just said that Ferrari has appelled.
Another strange decision from the Ferrari leadership. Waste of time....

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turbof1
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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Let's get a few things straight:

-Vettel got his penalty essentially for rejoining the track in an unsafe manner. It has nothing to do with potentially gaining an unfair advantage. There have been penalties in the past in this regard.

-On the video above I do see Vettel making an extra move to the right. Now, it's not clear on the video if this was a conscious decision, or if he was fighting oversteer. I think an overhead camera would make this more clear.

-Does anybody know if Vettel actually got weighted? I don't see anything about that on the news sites, so I have to assume he got weighted. If he wasn't, this could a be technical regulation infringement.

-In the end, Vettel did show sportmanship too by talking down the booers and supporting Hamilton. I disagree people booed Hamilton out of racism, but rather out of malcontent that things got decided this way. We should keep into perspective though these are persons and not robots. They are just as much prone to emotional upheaval as you or me.
#AeroFrodo

dans79
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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Jolle wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:32 pm
Xwang wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:29 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:23 pm


it's an in race penalty, so no, not appealable.
Italian Sky has just said that Ferrari has appelled.
Another strange decision from the Ferrari leadership. Waste of time....
yeah, because if they do get it reviewed the FIA will look at all data and It could actually get worse for Vettel.
164 98 95 7

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ringo
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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izzy wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:15 pm
ringo wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:01 pm
izzy wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:54 pm

well yes it's true he had to rejoin the track, but did he need to go right across to the wall? when I re-watch it i don't think so. Karun was going on about his oversteer but the car wasn't pointing away from the wall in oversteer, it was pointing along the track quite straight, then Seb steered it right, making it point towards the wall

it was instinct obviously and you can understand it, but he had the option imo
I don't think Karun realized at the time, that the oversteer was caused by Vettel pinning the throttle pedal to get back onto the track. Which by itself proves that Vettel was in no danger of hitting the wall on the right. Vettel pretty much was in full control until the self induced oversteer moment. Vettel was more mindful of keeping P1 than hitting the wall.
Anyhow i can't understand why Gasly is behind Verstappen in the standings. :shock:
They need to give Kyvatt that seat.
i don't think there even was any oversteer really, and yes he was defending wasn't he. i mean if you stop this at the last frame of Lewis' onboard at 2s, Seb is steering left, not right
[https://twitter.com/i/status/1137828967237468161
Vettel steered right. :P Unless you are mixing up your directions. He steered right to counter the oversteer after pinning the throttle. you would have to see in in a video with seb's onboard.

He had oversteer, but it was all his doing.
I believe a few races ago (china?) where Kyvat? crashed into other cars at the start, he was penalized for causing a collision.
He was also correcting oversteer similar to vettel. And also similar to vettel this oversteer did not take them by surprise. They were losing ground to their rivals and desperately lost patience and pinned the throttle hoping to magically be ahead. Vettel did this on grass, on which he knows there will be no traction.
He is ofcourse good enough to countersteer, but this misplaces the car and blocks hamilton. So in all fairness it was unsafe re entry. what he should have done is simply not floor the throttle and things would have worked out better.
Everything was in his control.
Last edited by ringo on Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For Sure!!

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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dans79 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:33 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:32 pm
Xwang wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:29 pm


Italian Sky has just said that Ferrari has appelled.
Another strange decision from the Ferrari leadership. Waste of time....
yeah, because if they do get it reviewed the FIA will look at all data and It could actually get worse for Vettel.
"my foot slipped"

zeph
zeph
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Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:54 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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Loved Vettel's switching the numbers around lol.

Shows he hasn't outgrown his petulance, but still, funny.

Also, interesting to see he can still be forced into a mistake like that by a relentless pursuer.
Last edited by zeph on Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

zibby43
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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Xwang wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:29 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:23 pm
wickedz50 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:18 pm
Is this penalty appealable? looks like Ferrari and many other teams have appealed such cases but FAILED!
it's an in race penalty, so no, not appealable.
Italian Sky has just said that Ferrari has appelled.
https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1137850670965559296