2019 performance speculation

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roon
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

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Sainz catching up to Gasly. McLaren 4th in the WCC.

Bill
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After such a boring race or season you got to wonder what Brawn motivation was in changing the regulations, banning the blown axle and the complex front wing was only going to hurt Ferrari and Rbr .the tires change also hurts those two. If the goal is to Improve to show it has been a disastrous failure Brawn should step down because he seem keen to help Mercedes

bosyber
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

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The idea was to take part of the ideas they were looking at for 2021, partly in the hope of not having following become even worse than in 2018 - and that actually seems to have succeeded, especially in the midfield - despite RBR apparently not getting their stuff in order - and partly to validate that thinking, so that if it's wrong, they know before putting it all as one package onto the track (which still seems a good idea).

The tyres being more fiddly now (and apparently Ferrari not taking the new tyres and rules into account and unaccountably going for less downforce rather than more, as Merc. has done), and the fact that Mercedes can handle them better due to more df (though Bottas had trouble switching the hard on after the France VC!), while others are less successful, has made the differences look starker.

Well, that, and Ferrari, and drivers, not just being slower, but also more error prone. In the end, Mercedes methodically improved, while the two others at the top have not (and Gasly not helping much). In the midfield, McLaren and Renault might have improved. HAAS using lots of Ferrari bits, and maybe that's partly why they haven't been able to improve their tyre-usage; STR seems quite solid with good drivers, RacingPoint clearly have a car that's not got the needed amount of investment, bc. it was started when they were Force India, and well, Stroll's quali, while Williams, well, yeah.

aran.vtec
aran.vtec
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

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Bill wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:28 am
After such a boring race or season you got to wonder what Brawn motivation was in changing the regulations, banning the blown axle and the complex front wing was only going to hurt Ferrari and Rbr .the tires change also hurts those two. If the goal is to Improve to show it has been a disastrous failure Brawn should step down because he seem keen to help Mercedes
I still believe if they kept rules the same from 2016 we would of had some awesome racing as others teams would of caught up and the smaller cars created more space for overtaking.

On a side note imagine how great this championship would of been so far if you remove the mercs from f1? 3 way battle for 1st and the midfield teams fighting for a podium

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GPR-A
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

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Bill wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:28 am
After such a boring race or season you got to wonder what Brawn motivation was in changing the regulations, banning the blown axle and the complex front wing was only going to hurt Ferrari and Rbr .the tires change also hurts those two. If the goal is to Improve to show it has been a disastrous failure Brawn should step down because he seem keen to help Mercedes
What stopped these teams from raising concern that their philosophy would be compromised with these new regulations? Haven't read a single article where any of these teams trying to safeguard their interest. On the contrary, Toto Wolff has been begging for rules stability.

Ferrari fought hard for 2014 regulations, by quoting to have more importance for Mechanical aspects of the car and better engines, as Red Bull was dominating with aero. But couldn't capitalise on it.

McLaren and Red Bull fought hard for 2017 rules, as if they would somehow become leading forces, but nothing changed. It actually helped Ferrari to become competitive, but couldn't beat Mercedes. In fact Mercedes moved for longer wheel base and with that, they started 2017 with much heavier car. But as the season progressed, they started fixings the 'Diva's issues.

These are world class teams and are expected to cope up with changes, not cry foul on changes like elementary kids.

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

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Bill wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:28 am
After such a boring race or season you got to wonder what Brawn motivation was in changing the regulations, banning the blown axle and the complex front wing was only going to hurt Ferrari and Rbr .the tires change also hurts those two. If the goal is to Improve to show it has been a disastrous failure Brawn should step down because he seem keen to help Mercedes
The goal wasn't specifically to "improve the show ", it was to increase the ability of cars to follow closely, which, from what we saw in Canada has been a success.

Bill
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That's just semantics getting cars closer so that they can overtake easily without loosing aero benefits but for car to overtake you need a much closer grid . Changing the regulations always has a negative opposite effect it spreads out the field. It took f1 5 years to close that grid 3 teams could win a race last year but Brawn threw all of that last year its back to square 1.you have to wait until 2026 to watch proper racing because 2021 is another reset

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izzy
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

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Bill wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:24 am
That's just semantics getting cars closer so that they can overtake easily without loosing aero benefits but for car to overtake you need a much closer grid . Changing the regulations always has a negative opposite effect it spreads out the field. It took f1 5 years to close that grid 3 teams could win a race last year but Brawn threw all of that last year its back to square 1.you have to wait until 2026 to watch proper racing because 2021 is another reset
we have to think about what would've happened if they hadn't done anything tho. The cars would've developed to be about 1s quicker, with more finely tuned aero that'd be more sensitive to wake and also creating a bigger wake themselves

imo the mistake was to move the front wing forwards by 25mm, i don't know why they did that, that's allowed more airflow to outwash between the wing and the tyre, obviously!!

also i think they made a mistake with the front brake ducts that's allowed more flow through the wheels than they meant

and then Mercedes were smart with the extra sensors for tyre testing and Pirelli had to make tyres to suit the biggest downforces loads not the average, again obviously!

Bill
Bill
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Gpr -a don't fall for wolf propaganda when the chips are down he will always vote for his self interest which he did with new front wing .Rbr and Ferrari vehemently opposed the rules but unfortunately were outvoted. The rules from 2014 to 2018 when relative stable even though they was a change in 2017 it was about size , take what they already have and make it big.changing the front wing it's a whole new game Ferrari don't know how the gonna get themselves out of this hole their updates don't seem to work.Rbr ?the future look grim

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Phil
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

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You know, creating rules is one thing, but having a crystal ball and predicting who will make the most out of them, another. If everyone knew the tires were gonna cause this much trouble (for at 8 out of 10 teams), dont you think they would have voted against them when they had a chance to?

Or that the new frontwing regulation would play into the hands of Mercedes?

Mercedes might be in its own league, but i’d argue the grid from 2nd to last is actually closer than ever. The midfield is closer and the battle for 4th really close. Ferrari and RedBull (Max) are also very closely matched.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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GPR-A
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

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Bill wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:27 am
Gpr -a don't fall for wolf propaganda when the chips are down he will always vote for his self interest which he did with new front wing .Rbr and Ferrari vehemently opposed the rules but unfortunately were outvoted. The rules from 2014 to 2018 when relative stable even though they was a change in 2017 it was about size , take what they already have and make it big.changing the front wing it's a whole new game Ferrari don't know how the gonna get themselves out of this hole their updates don't seem to work.Rbr ?the future look grim
You know, hindsight is a wonderful thing. It gives the abilities to manufacture thoughts to suit an agenda. I did not near anyone saying rules were bad, at the conclusion of first Winter Test where the entire world was convinced that Mercedes got it wrong and Ferrari's front wing is the right philosophy. Newey said, they can easily replicate that and the rest of the flow would be just fine. A few races past the season, suddenly, the rules are bad and favored Mercedes!

People often forget that, the out wash front wings were first implemented by Mercedes and then other teams followed it. It was inherent to their car's working philosophy and that being taken away for 2019, Mercedes should have cried foul. But they didn't. Mattia Binnotto mentioned that, when they first put their 2019 spec in Wind tunnel, they lost 1.5 seconds. In an interview, James Allison said, when they first put their 2019 spec, they lost 2.5 seconds! Red Bull claimed that, by December, they had recovered all the lost down force!!!

That tells you, who got affected the most.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14156 ... 2019-rules
"We predicted an impact of 1.5s per lap when we [first tested] in the windtunnel and it's what we got," said Binotto.
https://africa.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/2 ... rrari-year
Regulation changes to the front wing over the winter had initially left Mercedes flustered. The team's aerodynamic concept was based on its ability to load up the tips of the front wing and manipulate air downstream with devices around the front wing endplates, but the simplified regulations for 2019 stripped the team of one its key strengths.

"When we first put these new regulations on, which have much less geometrical freedom [for the front wing], it haemorrhaged downforce off our car because one of our key features was totally broken," Mercedes technical director James Allison told Sky Sports earlier this year. "When I say haemorrhaged, I mean 2.5 seconds gone! It was a big deal.
No individual can be discredited and branded in to a single bucket. That applies to Toto Wolff too. If you are a die hard fan of another team which is struggling, then Toto Wolff appears to you as a demon. For those who just enjoy whatever is happening, he appears to be a great leader and a sane man with measured talk.

Bill
Bill
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

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It's a hot button issue it's unlikely we gonna agree but what important is rules stability every one can agree the constant changes is hurting.Bernie wanted tires that degrade so that we can have 2 stoppers but Pirelli pulled a wool on every one eyes we stuck with one stop races no variety. Everywhere you look things don't smell right. They was a philosophy on how to bring good races but it was discarded.

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izzy
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Bill wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:27 am
.Rbr and Ferrari vehemently opposed the rules but unfortunately were outvoted.
Ferrari voted FOR the new rules:
The secret was recently revealed by Motorsport Italy who confirmed that Ferrari and Mercedes voted in favour of the proposal in hopes that the FIA will take care of their concerns in the 2021 new engine rules.

F1 commission pushed in a few aerodynamic changes to encourage overtaking and wheel to wheel racing in its 2019 rules update package and the FIA’s World Council ratified the decisions last week.

According to the first reports, only the Mercedes powered team were in favour of the rule while the rest of the grid was opposed to it. So it was surprising to see the rule pass through four yes votes when Mercedes had only three.

But the reality turned out to be different. The dissenters were only four – Red Bull, Renault, McLaren and Toro Rosso. Ferrari and its customer teams voted for the proposal.
https://grandpx.news/the-reason-ferrari ... ero-rules/

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izzy
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GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:13 am
If you are a die hard fan of another team which is struggling, then Toto Wolff appears to you as a demon. For those who just enjoy whatever is happening, he appears to be a great leader and a sane man with measured talk.
lol so true. Toto is one of the great TP's of F1, and generally a Ferrari fan's worst nightmare :twisted: :D

Bill
Bill
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I am sure Ferrari are happy with their choice now Men who voted for those regulations will soon lose their jobs,they never hesitate to chop heads at Maranello.f1 teams should not allow themselves to be divided it is this self serving interests that hurt them in long run