Is this the Ferrari J-Damper?

[Conceptual]

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/ ... 2/598.html

It talks about a rotating mass inside an outer casing. I was just wondering if this is actually the much talked about J-damper.

Thanks!

[Saribro]

Sounds like it, yeah

[scarbs]

Yes and no....! He is pointing to the right area and yes Ferrari do run the Inerter (J Damper) at the rear. But Ferrari also runs a conventional third damper, they sit one in front of the other above the gearbox and have done so since Monza 2007.

The work done at Mugello before the Singapore race was focussed on front suspension and especially brakes, it wasn’t about the J damper.


Scarbs

[Conceptual]

Thanks!

[mep]

So do they actually talk about the J-damper or not?
I think they do because they say it is made from wolfram and this is a very heavy metal (density=19,25 g/cm³).
So it would be optimal for storing the rotational inertia.

Yes and no....! He is pointing to the right area and yes Ferrari do run the Inerter (J Damper) at the rear. But Ferrari also runs a conventional third damper, they sit one in front of the other above the gearbox and have done so since Monza 2007.

Can you be more specific here pls.?
Do they use two third dampers at the same time?
Or are the two normal dampers for each side the j-dampers?
Or do the change the third dampers and are sometimes using the conventional ones and sometimes the j-dampers?
Or is simply the text wrong because it's written by a journalist and not a technical.

Can you post a few pictures of the arrangement please?

[pgj]

Good call, good spot. I guess that you are right.

[WhiteBlue]

by the description it is obviously a new type of J-Damper design for Ferrari. It was having a remarkable effect on Kimi's performance. perhaps its a 2G design Scarbs?

[scarbs]

Can you be more specific here pls.?

Do they use two third dampers at the same time?
They use two devices at the same, one conventional heave damper and an inerter, they look similar to the untrained eye.

Or are the two normal dampers for each side the j-dampers?
The car still uses two side dampers, (this four devices in total)

Or do the change the third dampers and are sometimes using the conventional ones and sometimes the j-dampers?
There may be race tracks where an inerter is not required.

Or is simply the text wrong because it's written by a journalist and not a technical.
That is probably the greater explanation. Fillisetti is not most accurate of writers in this area. His drawing is far from conclusive, the element he draws is not clear nor detailed, but is in the position of the inerter. There’s nothing he shows or says that leads me to believe he has any insight on changes to the Ferrari inerter set up. I know for a fact that the Ferrari preparation was brake and front suspension focussed. While it’s possible that the inerter may have been a part of the tuning of the suspension set up, I doubt it is “THE” reason for the change in Kimi’s fortunes.


Scarbs

[PlatinumZealot]

the J in J damper sounds like J as in the second moment of inertia about a torsion axis.

I had a friend who did a Mass damper for a project. only it looked like two cantilevers with cylindrical weights on them jutting out of a box.

The mass damper is a damper that cancels out vibration with it's own vibration, unlike a typical viscous shock absorber. It only works within a set frequency range.



On the other hand this could be a Mass damper and the J damper could be anything..

anybody have any pictures of this "J damper"

[scarbs]

anybody have any pictures of this "J damper"

It's right here on this site....

http://www.f1technical.net/features/105 ... a22a60fed8

[Ciro Pabón]

the J in J damper sounds like J as in the second moment of inertia about a torsion axis.

I read that the "J" in J-damper was invented by the developers as a rouse to throw off the competition, as Professor Smith says here: http://www.ukinvest.gov.uk/OurWorld/4034578/en-O1.html

The original J-damper is a kind of damper used in buildings. It's a J-shaped steel frame, that you put as a link between the columns and the foundation. It dampens the movements of the building during an earthquake.

I'm familiar with them and I swear that when I heard about the novel McLaren suspension system, I tried to understand very hard how this conventional, civil engineering gadget could be used in a car suspension, so the name rouse worked at least for one person: me.

I understand that the damper used by F1 cars is essentially a rotational damper, whose name has no intentional relation with its function.

[ISLAMATRON]

yep, it is actually an inerter... I remember talking about them in college, but never in relation to automotive suspension systems. This an an ingenious application and could actually find its way to road cars eventually. They can actually increase lateral grip but at the same time increase traction while maintaining a good ride. Brilliant. wish I could put some on my RX-7... lately it has some serious understeer.

[mep]

Thanks scarbs for your explanations and for that link:
http://www.f1technical.net/features/10586

The pictures there are absolutely what I needed to understand the technical solution.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yeah thanks for info too, i guess i was wrong about the J thing..

I too was surprised that they didn't have them in F1 until that time..

Here is the one i helped my friend with..This one is a tuned mass damper..the actual thing worked but the predicted frequency was a little off. Mine has no flywheel just two heavy weights. and a rack and pinion on the inside. It just looks different because it's made to go on a flat surface. The motor just provides the vibration.

[bar555]

Image from turkish GP