Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Are Schumacher's WDC and Win records under threat of being eclipsed?

Will the 7 WDC record be broken?
4
3%
Will the 91 Victory record be broken?
41
32%
Neither record will be broken.
18
14%
Both records will be broken.
67
52%
 
Total votes: 130

GPR-A
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by GPR-A » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:16 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:13 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:50 pm
Was level on points with Alonso, got beaten by Jenson in 2011 and also got beaten by Nico in 2016. Doesn't look very impressive. Does it? Even stevens at best. Wouldn't Michael have managed that? Might have bettered it.
Beat Alonso by finishing higher in the standings (out qualified him too). Beat Button more often than was beaten (outqualified him too). Beat Rosberg more often than was beaten (outqualified him too). Hence he beat three champions and outqualified all three too. He drove two champions to run away - one went elsewhere, one retired because he knew he couldn't perform at the level required to do it again.

Rosberg beat Schumacher each season they were together. So your last point isn't even close.
You can keep digging for miniature details and point all you want, the fact remains that, Lewis had an even steven record on the days that matter the most over a season, the race days. Unlike Lewis got who got beaten in qualifying in 2014 by Nico, Michael was never beaten until he retired on his pomp. You need a survival straw for your argument like that of Michael's second career against Nico. :lol:

1991 : Outqualified de Cesaris 1-0, and Piquet 4-1
1992 : Outqualified Brundle 16-0
1993 : Outqualified Patrese 16-0
1994 : 8-0 vs Verstappen, 6-0 vs Lehto, 2-0 vs Herbert
1995 : 16-1 vs Herbert
1996 : 15-1 vs Irvine
1997 : 16-1 vs Irvine
1998 : 15-1 vs Irvine
1999 : 9-1 vs Irvine
2000 : 15-2 vs Rubens
2001 : 16-1 vs Rubens
2002 : 13-4 vs Rubens
2003: 10-6 vs Rubens
2004: 13-5 vs Rubens
2005: 12-7 vs Rubens
2006: 13-4 vs Massa

TAG
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by TAG » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:33 pm

GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:16 pm
1991 : Outqualified de Cesaris 1-0, and Piquet 4-1
1992 : Outqualified Brundle 16-0
1993 : Outqualified Patrese 16-0
1994 : 8-0 vs Verstappen, 6-0 vs Lehto, 2-0 vs Herbert
1995 : 16-1 vs Herbert
1996 : 15-1 vs Irvine
1997 : 16-1 vs Irvine
1998 : 15-1 vs Irvine
1999 : 9-1 vs Irvine
2000 : 15-2 vs Rubens
2001 : 16-1 vs Rubens
2002 : 13-4 vs Rubens
2003: 10-6 vs Rubens
2004: 13-5 vs Rubens
2005: 12-7 vs Rubens
2006: 13-4 vs Massa
That's an impressive list of F1 all time greats there! :wink:
Countdown to 91: 7 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

dans79
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by dans79 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:38 pm

TAG wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:33 pm
That's an impressive list of F1 all time greats there! :wink:
Sure looks like it to me!

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:42 pm

dans79 wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:38 pm
TAG wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:33 pm
That's an impressive list of F1 all time greats there! :wink:
Sure looks like it to me!
In fairness, there's one champion in there. Right at the end of his career, but it still counts! Much more so than all of the also-rans in the list. :wink: :roll: :lol: :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

GPR-A
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by GPR-A » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:46 pm

TAG wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:33 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:16 pm
1991 : Outqualified de Cesaris 1-0, and Piquet 4-1
1992 : Outqualified Brundle 16-0
1993 : Outqualified Patrese 16-0
1994 : 8-0 vs Verstappen, 6-0 vs Lehto, 2-0 vs Herbert
1995 : 16-1 vs Herbert
1996 : 15-1 vs Irvine
1997 : 16-1 vs Irvine
1998 : 15-1 vs Irvine
1999 : 9-1 vs Irvine
2000 : 15-2 vs Rubens
2001 : 16-1 vs Rubens
2002 : 13-4 vs Rubens
2003: 10-6 vs Rubens
2004: 13-5 vs Rubens
2005: 12-7 vs Rubens
2006: 13-4 vs Massa
That's an impressive list of F1 all time greats there! :wink:
Lewis struggled to beat one of those for 2008 championship. Speaks volumes about the quality of that championship. :lol: Heikki and Valtteri are the real flying finns!!!

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:49 pm

GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:16 pm
Unlike Lewis got who got beaten in qualifying in 2014 by Nico, Michael was never beaten until he retired on his pomp.
He raced one title winner who was right at the end of his career, and then 10 "nobodies". Then he had 3 seasons against a future title winner and was handed his backside by him.

Hamilton has had 3 title winners (all three of whom were on the top of their game, two of them were the defending champion) and 2 "nobodies" and beaten all 5 of them one way or another.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

GPR-A
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by GPR-A » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:53 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:49 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:16 pm
Unlike Lewis got who got beaten in qualifying in 2014 by Nico, Michael was never beaten until he retired on his pomp.
He raced one title winner who was right at the end of his career, and then 10 "nobodies". Then he had 3 seasons against a future title winner and was handed his backside by him.

Hamilton has had 3 title winners (all three of whom were on the top of their game, two of them were the defending champion) and 2 "nobodies" and beaten all 5 of them one way or another.
I like the fact that, you are unable to get a single fact from Michael's first career to put him down and the saving grace of your argument is a 40+ driver's leisure tour. Works like a charm. :lol:

TAG
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by TAG » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:53 pm

GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:46 pm
Lewis struggled to beat one of those for 2008 championship. Speaks volumes about the quality of that championship. :lol: Heikki and Valtteri are the real flying finns!!!
We talk about being beaten by team mates, I give a counter example, you move the goal post.
We talk about being beaten in qualifying, I give a counter example, you move the goal post.
We talk about motivation to win, I give a counter example, you move the goal post.
We talk about the quality of team mates, I don't have to give a counter example just make light of yours... you move the goal post.

I've been telling you but you refuse to listen. We talk about numbers, Schumacher wins. We talk about anything else and your opinion will never match the facts on how Hamilton has scored his numbers to date. You can move the goal post all you want.
Last edited by TAG on Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Countdown to 91: 7 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Jolle
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by Jolle » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:53 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:42 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:38 pm
TAG wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:33 pm
That's an impressive list of F1 all time greats there! :wink:
Sure looks like it to me!
In fairness, there's one champion in there. Right at the end of his career, but it still counts! Much more so than all of the also-rans in the list. :wink: :roll: :lol: :lol:
different times, different challenges I guess. To have some more numbers: Hamilton did 8 seasons with a (future) world champion teammate, Prost 7 of those, Alonso 4 and Senna 2 ½.

GPR-A
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by GPR-A » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:55 pm

TAG wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:53 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:46 pm
That's an impressive list of F1 all time greats there! :wink:
Lewis struggled to beat one of those for 2008 championship. Speaks volumes about the quality of that championship. :lol: Heikki and Valtteri are the real flying finns!!!
TAG wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:53 pm

We talk about being beaten by team mates, I give a counter example, you move the goal post.
We talk about being beaten in qualifying, I give a counter example, you move the goal post.
We talk about motivation to win, I give a counter example, you move the goal post.
We talk about the quality of team mates, I don't have to give a counter example just make light of yours... you move the goal post.

I've been telling you but you refuse to listen. We talk about numbers, Schumacher wins. We talk about anything else and your opinion will never match the facts on how Hamilton has scored his numbers to date. You can move the goal post all you want.
Don't expect the argument to follow one suite, because you decide that. Driver comparisons are not a game that can be boxed in one perspective. I am picking flaws from your own argument, which you think is moving goal post.

dans79
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by dans79 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:00 pm

GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:55 pm
I am picking flaws from your own argument, which you think is moving goal post.
What about, and what about this, and what about this, is kind of the definition of moving the goal post!

TAG
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by TAG » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:01 pm

GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:55 pm
TAG wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:53 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:46 pm
That's an impressive list of F1 all time greats there! :wink:
Lewis struggled to beat one of those for 2008 championship. Speaks volumes about the quality of that championship. :lol: Heikki and Valtteri are the real flying finns!!!
TAG wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:53 pm

We talk about being beaten by team mates, I give a counter example, you move the goal post.
We talk about being beaten in qualifying, I give a counter example, you move the goal post.
We talk about motivation to win, I give a counter example, you move the goal post.
We talk about the quality of team mates, I don't have to give a counter example just make light of yours... you move the goal post.

I've been telling you but you refuse to listen. We talk about numbers, Schumacher wins. We talk about anything else and your opinion will never match the facts on how Hamilton has scored his numbers to date. You can move the goal post all you want.
Don't expect the argument to follow one suite, because you decide that. Driver comparisons are not a game that can be boxed in one perspective. I am picking flaws from your own argument, which you think is moving goal post.
Opinion or facts. You don't like the facts fine but your opinions are subject to critique and in some cases, ridicule since you're the one using them to make a point. When you try and pass of in here the quality of team mates between the two being more difficult for Schumacher, you're going to get laughed at, and rightfully so.
Countdown to 91: 7 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

GPR-A
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by GPR-A » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:30 pm

dans79 wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:00 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:55 pm
I am picking flaws from your own argument, which you think is moving goal post.
What about, and what about this, and what about this, is kind of the definition of moving the goal post!
Depends how you read it based on your convenience.

Sieper
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by Sieper » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:32 pm

It is so hard to compare. There are so many factors that can be interpreted in so many ways. legitimately.

Hamilton will very likely break all records, that alone is greatness and I agree he has had to deal with many tough teammates. But then he also sometimes struggles against people that I don't expect him to struggle with (not even a bit). That is something that for me is hard to place as I actually do believe Hamilton is one of the all-time great, if not the greatest.

Also, when comparing with Schumacher, Did Hamilton ever hit someone out of the race whilst he himself already crashed his own car, I don't think so. To me those kind of things really cost you on the greatness scale. That is not great.

GPR-A
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by GPR-A » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:37 pm

TAG wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:01 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:55 pm
TAG wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:53 pm
Lewis struggled to beat one of those for 2008 championship. Speaks volumes about the quality of that championship. :lol: Heikki and Valtteri are the real flying finns!!!
TAG wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:53 pm

We talk about being beaten by team mates, I give a counter example, you move the goal post.
We talk about being beaten in qualifying, I give a counter example, you move the goal post.
We talk about motivation to win, I give a counter example, you move the goal post.
We talk about the quality of team mates, I don't have to give a counter example just make light of yours... you move the goal post.

I've been telling you but you refuse to listen. We talk about numbers, Schumacher wins. We talk about anything else and your opinion will never match the facts on how Hamilton has scored his numbers to date. You can move the goal post all you want.
Don't expect the argument to follow one suite, because you decide that. Driver comparisons are not a game that can be boxed in one perspective. I am picking flaws from your own argument, which you think is moving goal post.
Opinion or facts. You don't like the facts fine but your opinions are subject to critique and in some cases, ridicule since you're the one using them to make a point. When you try and pass of in here the quality of team mates between the two being more difficult for Schumacher, you're going to get laughed at, and rightfully so.
That's your way of thinking by assuming that the whole world is going to think like you. Lewis beat the team mates that he got and also got beaten and to say, that is why he is better and Schumacher's greatness is any lesser because he didn't have that kind of team mates, is outright amateurish. The fact remains that, Lewis couldn't comprehensively beat his champion team mates in every single season and got beaten. If he would have beaten them every single year and on every single aspect, he would have stood much taller. But the fact is, he didn't.