2022 Aero Thread

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mzso
mzso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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JordanMugen wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:38 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:35 pm
The more you reduce the wake to improve cornering behind another car, the worse slipstreaming will get.
That doesn't seem right. Formula Ford specifically bans downforce generating bodywork, yet has lots of slipstreaming.

IMO the downforce loss caused by the wake, is somewhat independent compared to the slipstream effect.
There's always a wake. But if you clear it up from turbulence and vortices, what do you get?
I think mostly a void, so I expect the slipstream effect will be enhanced.

mzso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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bauc wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:21 am
Well this is a twist.... but its logical move if we want to see close racing....

But wait, in the last 2 races we did..... I'm confused now
Luck and DRS, and lack of respect for track limits and the opponent...
Last edited by mzso on Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mzso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:03 am
I thought the low nose had been branded as dangerous ?
The high nose was branded dangerous. That's why they decreased the height before, and we got duck noses and ant-eaters. They should have just put it back down to the bottom then and there...
Last edited by mzso on Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mzso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:29 pm
We need a development race in f1, just not so much in aero, more so in electrification, and novel tech for the ICE and crazy stuff like cvt transmissions, laser ignition, rotary valve trane, or electromagnetic valve actuation. Stuff like the Williams flywheel.
Not sure there's any point in wasting money on ICE technology. Their days appear to be numbered.
Otherwise: yeah, open up everything else. Sinking all that money into convoluted aero designs only bought us horrors.

mzso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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“The front wing, we're still not completely pleased about,” says Tombazis, “both from an aerodynamic point of view and from an aesthetic point of view. So we're trying to make it a bit better in both aspects.
I have a solution:
ImageImage

roon
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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FrukostScones wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:47 am
AMUS article
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... nfos%2F%23
typical Brawn
Ross Brawn counters the charge of the designers that the cars would look alike in the future: "We allowed ourselves the fun, and the current cars are all presented in neutral color. I would have guessed right only three cars. Only the absolute nerds know all the differences. "
I too allowed myself the fun. I presented photos of all the drivers in neutral color, and they all looked pretty much the same. Only absolute nerds know the differences. A spec driver, or a driving computer, could be imposed without much fuss and for sure would be easier to program and give team orders to (far cheaper to hire and insure, as well). I then decolorized replays of race overtakes. It all looked the same. Only absolute nerds would have known who was driving what. I transcribed 300 driver interviews across three seasons, jumbled them, and then read them. They all read the same. Only absolute nerds would have known the differences. Finally, I removed the drivers' names from some quali lists. Guess what. Only absolute nerds would have known who was who.

Maplesoup
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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roon wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:32 pm
FrukostScones wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:47 am
AMUS article
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... nfos%2F%23
typical Brawn
Ross Brawn counters the charge of the designers that the cars would look alike in the future: "We allowed ourselves the fun, and the current cars are all presented in neutral color. I would have guessed right only three cars. Only the absolute nerds know all the differences. "
I too allowed myself the fun. I presented photos of all the drivers in neutral color, and they all looked pretty much the same. Only absolute nerds know the differences. A spec driver, or a driving computer, could be imposed without much fuss and for sure would be easier to program and give team orders to (far cheaper to hire and insure, as well). I then decolorized replays of race overtakes. It all looked the same. Only absolute nerds would have known who was driving what. I transcribed 300 driver interviews across three seasons, jumbled them, and then read them. They all read the same. Only absolute nerds would have known the differences. Finally, I removed the drivers' names from some quali lists. Guess what. Only absolute nerds would have known who was who.
Have to say I don't quite get your argument or point here. The teams are moaning that the cars will all look the same. But when an F1 car goes past could you really tell which car was which without the paint job?

Cars already all look very similar because of the current regulations. Personally I'd rather they allow for some more unique design. But if the new rules produce similar cars like today's rules do then who cares.

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FrukostScones
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14487 ... imitations

Do we really can trust those people?
"There are complaints that all the cars are going to look the same and the other nonsense we have heard, so as an exercise, Pat [Symonds] took all the existing cars and took the livery off them and put them up [on a wall].

"You cannot tell the difference between the cars we have now once the colours are taken off them.

"You need to be an extreme geek to pick them out, and even within our office we managed to pick three out!

"So when you see the existing cars with the colours taken off, you wouldn't know."
take the test yourself here. don't forget to put on your (reading) glasses.

https://www.f1fanvoice.com/svy/index/38580

first one got me confused, but as I expect from all of you the same result of 100%.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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djos wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:22 am
I love the development race in F1 but this is absolutely the right direction imo. I'm excited!
Agreed. I have full confidence in Tombazis and Brawn, their "taster" 2019 aero rules package has worked well to make following & racing easier and the more comprehensive 2021 aero rules package will be even better IMO. =D> =D>

Nikolas Tombazis says:
If you take the aero part of this study, a lot of this is focused on reducing the ability of teams to control the front wheel wake: that is a key part of this work. The ability to control front wheel wake is maybe one of the greatest challenges of the current aerodynamicists and reducing that creates this kick back (from team aero departments).
https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/brawn ... e/4497010/

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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FrukostScones wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:57 pm
first one got me confused, but as I expect from all of you the same result of 100%.
I'm not so confident as you, lol.

Mercedes, McLaren and Force India have distinctive noses. Apart from that, I would struggle to tell the difference.

IMO, it would be very difficult to pick the difference between Toro Rosso, Renault, Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Williams and HAAS without livery.

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Maplesoup wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:47 pm
Cars already all look very similar because of the current regulations. Personally I'd rather they allow for some more unique design. But if the new rules produce similar cars like today's rules do then who cares.
Remember when the lenient rules for Chevrolet and Honda aero kits in Indycar were supposed to produce two very different & unique looking packages? After two seasons of convergence, the result was simply too very similar, and equally ugly, looking aero kits...

Image

Image

If F1 teams are given the freedoms to pile winglets all over the car, then they will. The winglets were out of hand by 2008 (below) and if the rules had been stable until present, imagine how adorned F1 cars would be now with the complexity of the current hugely intricate turning vanes and bargeboards allowed to extend over the *whole car*...

Image

That's why the very prescriptive 2021 bodywork rules are IMO a very good idea to save the F1 teams from themsleves. =D>

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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JordanMugen wrote:
FrukostScones wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:57 pm
first one got me confused, but as I expect from all of you the same result of 100%.
I'm not so confident as you, lol.

Mercedes, McLaren and Force India have distinctive noses. Apart from that, I would struggle to tell the difference.

IMO, it would be very difficult to pick the difference between Toro Rosso, Renault, Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Williams and HAAS without livery.
Alfa Romeo should be pretty easy to identify, similar to Mclaren with the 3 openings in the nose, but the side ones are oversized compared to the center one... Their unique front wing also makes it relatively easy to identify.

Ferrari has an stub nose that is “square” and the outwash wing, which should be easy tell apart from the Haas, Renault and Williams... You could confuse it with STR, but their stub nose is wider at the back... If that’s not enough the air inlet is completely different and the Ferrari one stands out... Red Bull is also easy to identify since their nose has an opening and the tip doesn’t follow the slope of the nose, going “upwards”... And they have the only stub nose with a similar wing to Mercedes, so relatively easy to identify too.

The only ones that I could see some difficulties with is between Haas and Renault, but Renault has the widest stub nose of them all.

I took the poll and only had to really look for the difference between Renault and Haas, the rest seemed pretty straight forward.


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SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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JordanMugen wrote:
Maplesoup wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:47 pm
Cars already all look very similar because of the current regulations. Personally I'd rather they allow for some more unique design. But if the new rules produce similar cars like today's rules do then who cares.
Remember when the lenient rules for Chevrolet and Honda aero kits in Indycar were supposed to produce two very different & unique looking packages? After two seasons of convergence, the result was simply too very similar, and equally ugly, looking aero kits...

Image

Image

If F1 teams are given the freedoms to pile winglets all over the car, then they will. The winglets were out of hand by 2008 (below) and if the rules had been stable until present, imagine how adorned F1 cars would be now with the complexity of the current hugely intricate turning vanes and bargeboards allowed to extend over the *whole car*...

Image

That's why the very prescriptive 2021 bodywork rules are IMO a very good idea to save the F1 teams from themsleves. =D>
I actually love how crazy the F1 cars can get, it’s part of their so called DNA and what separates them from all other series in my opinion... Let them go crazy... At the end, this is supposed to be the pinnacle of Motorsport :)


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NL_Fer
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Front wing nice and narrow, save between the front wheels. Why can’t those return? Front wheel wake seems to be no problem back than.

Image

Giblet
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Wheel wake is the single biggest aero problem on open wheel cars.

The cars needed an average of 1.5 seconds pace advantage to mount a pass, the dirty air was worse then.

It's the whole reason we were stuck with Trulli Trains and why races had their order largely decided after the first round of stops.

It's why the cars were given a shave and a haircut in 2009.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute