Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Breaking news, useful data or technical highlights or vehicles that are not meant to race. You can post commercial vehicle news or developments here.
Please post topics on racing variants in "other racing categories".
Locked
User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

Ah thank you.. I have wondered long before this conversation was started. Nice looking ride.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

User avatar
djos
113
Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

strad wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 20:10
Ah thank you.. I have wondered long before this conversation was started. Nice looking ride.
No worries.
"In downforce we trust"

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

strad wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 19:26
I have a question for Andres. I have for a long time wondered what car that is in his avatar. Is it electric? I assume it's some kind of dream car.
honest question.. I cannot make out what it is.
For some of us going for a drive is a form of relaxation. A chance to get away from the pressures of the day.
Also for me Strad. If I defend EVs that does not mean I don´t enjoy driving any ICE car, actually I do enjoy it at least same as you, period, I love driving even before I got my driving licence :wink:

It´s a Hulme, surely far from any current hypercar, but IMO the most beautiful F1 copy for the road, really love the clean design
Image
Image

User avatar
RZS10
359
Joined: 07 Dec 2013, 01:23

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

Quite similar to the Caparo T1, innit?

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

RZS10 wrote:
24 Aug 2019, 15:33
Quite similar to the Caparo T1, innit?
Yes they are, wich is not a surprise since both are road cars trying to be as similar as possible to a F1 car

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

Was being hones Andres.
I have wondered every time you avatar comes on the screen. It's a nice looking ride.
At first the fenders are kind of odd but I bet I could get used to them.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

strad wrote:
24 Aug 2019, 18:49
Was being hones Andres.
I have wondered every time you avatar comes on the screen. It's a nice looking ride.
At first the fenders are kind of odd but I bet I could get used to them.
Me too strad, we discuss so frequently about EVs and CC I think you must probably think I´m some sort of ICE hater, when that´s not true

I enjoy driving so much I even enjoy driving my Opel Combo 1.7d with just 65hp :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: #-o But I obviously enjoy much more my Pegaso 650 and its nice sound from the monocylinder engine :D

edit, fully agree about the fenders

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

Quite the thumper. In a way it reminds me of my Matchless Typhoon. Big singles can be a bit of a handful.
The only bike to ever throw me over the bars like some cartoon. Had to remember the compression release. :lol:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

User avatar
RZS10
359
Joined: 07 Dec 2013, 01:23

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

https://www.adac.de/verkehr/tanken-kraf ... nz-studie/

google translate:

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... -studie%2F

short press release:
https://presse.adac.de/meldungen/adac-e ... ilanz.html

translation:
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... ilanz.html

The full study, which was co-sponsored by the FIA and done by the "Forschungsgesellschaft Joanneum Research" will be released later this fall

tl:dr
when it comes to all lifecycle related emissions current EVs aren't any better than modern diesels over 15 years, both are better than petrol, natural gas powered are the best - that with the current german energy mix - their conclusion is that EVs need 'green' electricity to become viable (duh)

izzy
41
Joined: 26 May 2019, 22:28

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

RZS10 wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 19:55
https://www.adac.de/verkehr/tanken-kraf ... nz-studie/

google translate:

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... -studie%2F

short press release:
https://presse.adac.de/meldungen/adac-e ... ilanz.html

translation:
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... ilanz.html

The full study, which was co-sponsored by the FIA and done by the "Forschungsgesellschaft Joanneum Research" will be released later this fall

tl:dr
when it comes to all lifecycle related emissions current EVs aren't any better than modern diesels over 15 years, both are better than petrol, natural gas powered are the best - that with the current german energy mix - their conclusion is that EVs need 'green' electricity to become viable (duh)
yes if you burn coal and make CO2 in making the electricity then you're no further forward are you! Obvious really, but easily spun into a story. Tho batteries do have to find a new and better technology before long it's true.

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

From the article, first headline
The main problem is the German power mix with too much coal


As always, no study takes into consideration the energy mix today is different from the energy mix in next years

This chart is self explanatory, you just need a quick look to the increasing yellow area to notice what I mean
Image

Renewables are increasing year by year, actually doubled in last 8 years (more or less), and coal is also being reduced, so those calculations wich didn´t take this into account are not real.

Also, I´ll bet an arm they didn´t consider either petrol and diesel cars emissions do increase with time. It´s very different an brand new ICE to that same engine after 50 or 100k km, with some play on many parts, bearings wich do not spin as smooth as when new, some soot/cinder in the combustion chamber and exhaust, etc.


Even if today EVs would be similar, to me main difference is they will pollute less year by year thanks to a cleaner power production year by year, while ICEs will pollute more year by year due to wear and use.

Not considering this is biased or flawed, and, coincidence or not :roll: , I´ve yet to see one single comparison wich takes this into account

But thanks for the link RZS, it´s interesting

User avatar
Big Tea
99
Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

There also seems to be an increasing political awareness of the shift to electricity 'generated at home' as opposed to imported oil or oil powered generation. I think politicians are beginning to see the world the way things could well become as opposed to the way they thought or wanted it to become.

Increasing government support is not solely due to the emissions lobby, but with a nod to the 'experts in the back room'
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

It points out something I have wondered about.
LNG is clean and much cheaper to convert to.
It does make less power but it is a clean alternative. I have overhauled engines that were run for 100,000 miles on Natural Gas and it was near spotless inside.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

User avatar
RZS10
359
Joined: 07 Dec 2013, 01:23

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

We don't know what they took into account and what they ignored conveniently - projected changes to the energy mix? detoriation of the engines? I guess that even if one would account for those things it would just move the point where an EV makes sense for a diesel from 219k to still far over 100k, and if you already own a new-ish car and have a low yearly mileage it probably won't make any sense for a few more years, essentially until that car stops working...

Will be interesting to read it once it's fully released.

Regarding the increase of emissions with the car's age: the general inspection includes the proper emission test for all cars since 2018, the emissions have to be within a certain tolerance of the initial ones - it used to be an all clear OBD check, now they torture the engine (man it sounds bad when a diesel gets revved to redline :cry: - i thought someone was using a leaf blower outside until i realised it's my poor car) a particulate test is planned for diesels for 2021.
So emissions can't get too bad anyways, otherwise the car won't pass inspection.

@strad why push for those when taxes are lower on LNG and you can't make people buy new cars when they can just install an LNG kit :^)

User avatar
hollus
Moderator
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 01:21
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post

RZS10 wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 01:48
if you already own a new-ish car and have a low yearly mileage it probably won't make any sense for a few more years, essentially until that car stops working...
I have the feeling that 99% of the people reading this thread would agree with that. The discussion, unless you are a hardcore petrolhead (Coulombhead?) and want to have both, has always been about when it is time to buy a new car, hasn't it?
Rivals, not enemies.

Locked