General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Zynerji
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Zynerji » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:46 am

Sieper wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:03 pm
Bill wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:07 pm
The way I see it Honda want to stay in f1 but just waiting for new regulations
And they also want Some influence in the decision making, in 2014 it went the Mercedes way. So FIA cannot just listen to one team, they need to convince others it is worthwhile as well.
I believe the 2014 engine regs were Renault pushed. Merc just found a better way of extracting the performance.

Alexf1
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Alexf1 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:46 am

Renault pushed the concept most, Therefore Mercedes only had to be in favour. Mercedes pushed the 6 instead of 4 cylinder ICE variant which they had been developing for a looooong time. No other manufacturer had such a mature power unit back then. Let alone the advanced 'diesel' combustion technique. And the more cylinders with that advantage the better.

izzy
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by izzy » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:15 am

Alexf1 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:46 am
Renault pushed the concept most, Therefore Mercedes only had to be in favour. Mercedes pushed the 6 instead of 4 cylinder ICE variant which they had been developing for a looooong time. No other manufacturer had such a mature power unit back then. Let alone the advanced 'diesel' combustion technique. And the more cylinders with that advantage the better.
Ferrari refused to do a 4 cylinder, none of them wanted it. Mercedes thought about it best, Ferrari did a normal sized turbo, Renault were too small and Honda after looking at the Mercedes unit for a year decided to go with a miniturbo 🤔

But now they're all converging and great mates, F1 is a huge love-in among the OEMs, Honda will have as much of a voice as any of them.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by PlatinumZealot » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:00 pm

izzy wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:15 am
Alexf1 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:46 am
Renault pushed the concept most, Therefore Mercedes only had to be in favour. Mercedes pushed the 6 instead of 4 cylinder ICE variant which they had been developing for a looooong time. No other manufacturer had such a mature power unit back then. Let alone the advanced 'diesel' combustion technique. And the more cylinders with that advantage the better.
Ferrari refused to do a 4 cylinder, none of them wanted it. Mercedes thought about it best, Ferrari did a normal sized turbo, Renault were too small and Honda after looking at the Mercedes unit for a year decided to go with a miniturbo 🤔

But now they're all converging and great mates, F1 is a huge love-in among the OEMs, Honda will have as much of a voice as any of them.
The Ferrari was also too small. The turbine side. The spent many a token to alleviate that.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

izzy
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by izzy » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:36 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:00 pm
izzy wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:15 am
Ferrari refused to do a 4 cylinder, none of them wanted it. Mercedes thought about it best, Ferrari did a normal sized turbo, Renault were too small and Honda after looking at the Mercedes unit for a year decided to go with a miniturbo 🤔

But now they're all converging and great mates, F1 is a huge love-in among the OEMs, Honda will have as much of a voice as any of them.
The Ferrari was also too small. The turbine side. The spent many a token to alleviate that.
Yes and it was the next year before Ferrari could catch up wasn't it, but they did realise and fix it. But in the beginning it was all about Mercedes people, and nobody else, reading about mguH to K being unlimited, realising this could mean generating all over the track, and thinking "Mertrux baby!!" :)

Wouter
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Wouter » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:43 am

Jos Verstappen told yesterday on TV that Max can fight for the win in Singapore, USA, Brazil, Suzuka and Mexico.
He also said that there will be another engine change.
It would be strange in Abu Dhabi, so only Sochi is left.
@Wazari has always talked about a change in Sochi. So that could all be true. So wait and see.

He also said: " There was something with Max during the race that prevented him from achieving the required top speed and the expected RPM. However, that has been solved for the next race. "

Marti_EF3
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Marti_EF3 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:35 am

Wouter wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:43 am
Jos Verstappen told yesterday on TV that Max can fight for the win in Singapore, USA, Brazil, Suzuka and Mexico.
He also said that there will be another engine change.
It would be strange in Abu Dhabi, so only Sochi is left.
@Wazari has always talked about a change in Sochi. So that could all be true. So wait and see.

He also said: " There was something with Max during the race that prevented him from achieving the required top speed and the expected RPM. However, that has been solved for the next race. "
That should be some mapping issue then. Better to have all that issues now, and be well prepared for next year.

Mudflap
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Mudflap » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:18 pm

izzy wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:15 am
Alexf1 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:46 am
Renault pushed the concept most, Therefore Mercedes only had to be in favour. Mercedes pushed the 6 instead of 4 cylinder ICE variant which they had been developing for a looooong time. No other manufacturer had such a mature power unit back then. Let alone the advanced 'diesel' combustion technique. And the more cylinders with that advantage the better.
Ferrari refused to do a 4 cylinder, none of them wanted it. Mercedes thought about it best, Ferrari did a normal sized turbo, Renault were too small and Honda after looking at the Mercedes unit for a year decided to go with a miniturbo 🤔

But now they're all converging and great mates, F1 is a huge love-in among the OEMs, Honda will have as much of a voice as any of them.
Yes, I think VW were the only ones pushing for a 4 pot.
A bit like AM and Porsche asking to bin the MGUH with no real intention of joining F1.
How much TQ does it make though?

NL_Fer
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by NL_Fer » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:40 pm

izzy wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:15 am
Alexf1 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:46 am
Renault pushed the concept most, Therefore Mercedes only had to be in favour. Mercedes pushed the 6 instead of 4 cylinder ICE variant which they had been developing for a looooong time. No other manufacturer had such a mature power unit back then. Let alone the advanced 'diesel' combustion technique. And the more cylinders with that advantage the better.
Ferrari refused to do a 4 cylinder, none of them wanted it. Mercedes thought about it best, Ferrari did a normal sized turbo, Renault were too small and Honda after looking at the Mercedes unit for a year decided to go with a miniturbo 🤔

But now they're all converging and great mates, F1 is a huge love-in among the OEMs, Honda will have as much of a voice as any of them.
I remember Mercedes to be in favor of a 4 cilinder concept also, afterall the current 2.0 powering the A45 and S-class was in development already. But probably engineers calculated the advantages of the split turbo and Mercedes switched sides and chose for a V6 also.

Also the 2014 Renault powerunit was not that bad, better than Scuderia and made Redbull 2nd WCC. They lost it in 2015 when Ferrari and Merc started to push eachother and introduced Jet Ignition and oil burning.

For 2021 Honda just wants a development freeze, al 4 are becoming more equal and harder to find any gains. A freeze will save al 4 money.

Bill
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Bill » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:57 pm

Honda never said anything about a development freeze the person who said was helmet Marko he not a Honda employee. Quite frankly Honda will find a development freeze frustrating because they were laud into f1 on the premise that they can develop tech renegate on that will be deceitful. Honda doesn't mind a tech war they embrace it that's why they were not happy with common icu in moto gp.

izzy
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by izzy » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:16 pm

NL_Fer wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:40 pm
I remember Mercedes to be in favor of a 4 cilinder concept also, afterall the current 2.0 powering the A45 and S-class was in development already. But probably engineers calculated the advantages of the split turbo and Mercedes switched sides and chose for a V6 also.

Also the 2014 Renault powerunit was not that bad, better than Scuderia and made Redbull 2nd WCC. They lost it in 2015 when Ferrari and Merc started to push eachother and introduced Jet Ignition and oil burning.

For 2021 Honda just wants a development freeze, al 4 are becoming more equal and harder to find any gains. A freeze will save al 4 money.
Oh okay, and yes it was 2015 Renault fell apart wasn't it, and now it's they who want the freeze I'm reading, with being still a bit smaller organisation than the others. I read Flav downsized them and they've never fully recovered. Honda you'd think want to keep developing, now they've finally got their organisation working to F1 level.

etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by etusch » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:45 am

Bill wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:57 pm
Honda never said anything about a development freeze the person who said was helmet Marko he not a Honda employee. Quite frankly Honda will find a development freeze frustrating because they were laud into f1 on the premise that they can develop tech renegate on that will be deceitful. Honda doesn't mind a tech war they embrace it that's why they were not happy with common icu in moto gp.
They strugled long time with the standart ECU and still they could not completely sort it out. Maybe they are living same things with f1 standart ECU (maybe mapping issues etc coming from there) but we don't know it because we have not got comparation point

nzjrs
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by nzjrs » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:33 am

etusch wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:45 am
Bill wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:57 pm
Honda never said anything about a development freeze the person who said was helmet Marko he not a Honda employee. Quite frankly Honda will find a development freeze frustrating because they were laud into f1 on the premise that they can develop tech renegate on that will be deceitful. Honda doesn't mind a tech war they embrace it that's why they were not happy with common icu in moto gp.
They strugled long time with the standart ECU and still they could not completely sort it out. Maybe they are living same things with f1 standart ECU (maybe mapping issues etc coming from there) but we don't know it because we have not got comparation point
Interesting, I don't follow motogp. Can anyone provide more information on the this? is the ECU also a Mclaren Applied Technologies supplied part? does anyone know what the problems were? Is a standard ECU in motogp a new concept?

etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by etusch » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:17 am

Dorna decided to use standart ecu in motorgp 5-6 years ago maybe more years ago :-) . Honda said that times they will consider to leave motogp because of that because they want to develop their own ecu.
They didn't start to use standart ecu right away. There was a transition time (2 years if I am not wrong) which japannese manufacturers used their own ecu until the end of the time.
First there were 5 lt extra fuel for standart ecu users. I remember that ducati was using standart ecu and 5 lt extra fuel and at one race they just parked bike after finish line. They have a powerful engine but consume so much. It is not the case now but I don't know if they all use more fuel now or Ducati also uses lesser fuel. (25 lt I remember for open ecu and 20 for own ecu users) But now all use standart ecu and Honda have been living acceleration issues by now. It looks like they solved it a bit but not completely solved and still there are better rivals on it.
I read an article that Rossi was saying Yamaha must invest more on electronics like Honda did. Probably there are things still they are developing in house but ecu is standart and I think japannese manufacturers have problems with that and most Honda

https://www.crash.net/motogp/feature/23 ... for-motogp
Last edited by etusch on Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Marti_EF3
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Marti_EF3 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:18 pm

I saw in a japanese media that Tanabe said the data from the PU of Kvyat car was OK when parked. It still had oil pressure on working levels and the combustion was OK too. So it seems that the PU is safe for next races. They stopped the car in time =D>

Uploaded a screenshot because I can't copy text from that site with the smartphone #-o

Image