2019 Renault F1 Team

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gshevlin
gshevlin
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:39 am
loner wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:18 am
https://twitter.com/RenaultF1Team/statu ... 0918944768
will Renault pull the plug after 2020 ?!!
Renault are actually the only team officially signed beyond 2020.
They could always pay a penalty to leave the contract early. They might do that, with the McLaren decision they have no customer teams after 2020 to help with the cost of powerplant development, and their factory team is not performing as well as their customer team.
My guess is that McLaren decided to move back to Mercedes partly because Renault could not provide with sufficient assurance that they would even be in F1 after 2020.
LibertyF1, IMHO, has a problem of their own making. By keeping most of the current engine specification after 2021, they are trying to lock in existing suppliers, whose R&D costs are mostly spent, but this means that no new suppliers will join (Porsche apparently seriously considered joining but said No after the FIA decided to keep the MGU-H in the new regulations), and if suppliers leave F1, the existing suppliers, under their contracts, will have to supply more teams to make up the shortfall.
The best answer would be a clause in team and engine supplier agreements that mandates a standard engine supplied by a third party if the number of suppliers falls below 3. That would assure continued equitable power plant supply, and also provide the existing suppliers (including Ferrari, the 350 pound gorilla) with an incentive to work together to ensure that existing suppliers stay in the sport.
In the meantime, I consider it very possible that Renault will walk away. Remember that they only agreed to stay after a contentious meeting where Ron Dennis intervened forcefully. Renault were not happy with the commercial terms, and were threatening to leave F1. Ron apparently shouted "just pay them the ***king money".

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Big Tea
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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gshevlin wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:30 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:39 am
loner wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:18 am
https://twitter.com/RenaultF1Team/statu ... 0918944768
will Renault pull the plug after 2020 ?!!
Renault are actually the only team officially signed beyond 2020.
They could always pay a penalty to leave the contract early. They might do that, with the McLaren decision they have no customer teams after 2020 to help with the cost of powerplant development, and their factory team is not performing as well as their customer team.
My guess is that McLaren decided to move back to Mercedes partly because Renault could not provide with sufficient assurance that they would even be in F1 after 2020.
LibertyF1, IMHO, has a problem of their own making. By keeping most of the current engine specification after 2021, they are trying to lock in existing suppliers, whose R&D costs are mostly spent, but this means that no new suppliers will join (Porsche apparently seriously considered joining but said No after the FIA decided to keep the MGU-H in the new regulations), and if suppliers leave F1, the existing suppliers, under their contracts, will have to supply more teams to make up the shortfall.
The best answer would be a clause in team and engine supplier agreements that mandates a standard engine supplied by a third party if the number of suppliers falls below 3. That would assure continued equitable power plant supply, and also provide the existing suppliers (including Ferrari, the 350 pound gorilla) with an incentive to work together to ensure that existing suppliers stay in the sport.
In the meantime, I consider it very possible that Renault will walk away. Remember that they only agreed to stay after a contentious meeting where Ron Dennis intervened forcefully. Renault were not happy with the commercial terms, and were threatening to leave F1. Ron apparently shouted "just pay them the ***king money".
They could also sell the team lock. stock, barrel contracts and commitments. As long as the team has the same name they carry on as previously regardless of ownership (going by FI/PR anyway)
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

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Jambier
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Location: France

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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I think in any case they will keep the engine activity.

They are currently expending Viry.
Construction is on going.

And it will depend of budget cap for their future.

Honestly I think there is much more chance of Mercedes stopping their chassis part than Renault

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Juzh
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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hulk's q3 lap 1.33.289 (P7)

https://streamable.com/43as5

gshevlin
gshevlin
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Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:33 pm

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Jambier wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:27 pm
I think in any case they will keep the engine activity.

They are currently expending Viry.
Construction is on going.

And it will depend of budget cap for their future.

Honestly I think there is much more chance of Mercedes stopping their chassis part than Renault
It is not clear to me why expanding Viry-Chatillon is useful if there are no F1 customer teams to supply, unless it is being expanded for use in engine supply to other racing series.
Right now, the only possible tie-up I would see for Renault, if they continue after 2020, is to partner with Racing Point. Williams re-upped with Mercedes until 2025, Alfa Romeo and Haas are spoken for, as are Toro Rosso/Red Bull. It is unlikely that any new team will appear in 2021, if you believe what Jean Todt said last weekend. Frankly, I think LibertyF1 needs to zip it and stop making smartass comments about wanting a "top flight US team". Gene Haas does not have to be in F1. He has plenty of other ways to spend his Haas CNC money.

Mclarensenna
Mclarensenna
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Cyril fails yet again. From 2 customer teams to 1 customer team to now zero soon. He could not supply Mclaren with neither a powerful nor reliable engine even in 2019 in Renaults 6th year with the current hybrid era. Missed promises and targets year after year. I guess Seidl got sick of listening to Cyril's boy who cried wolf stories every year and thought enough is enough.
Seidl at Mclaren is no fool and made a smart switch away from Renault.

Cyrills motto was always since 2014 we are French and we will do more with less.
Well in 2014 four teams were using Renault engines and they all left as its not possible to do more with less in today's F1 as Renault keeps claiming.
Now with only 1 team revenues and advertising (lost on the Mclaren car in 2021) will fall further.
Every month that goes by at Renault I am in more shock and amazement how Cyril continues to keep his job.

gshevlin
gshevlin
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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The continuation of the current leadership on the powerplant and team side at Renault is indeed puzzling. F1 is a hard-nosed results business, and I would have thought that changes would have been made by now in both units, given that the powerplant is still not fully competitive, and the race team has consistently under-performed the lead customer team.
The other "works" teams (Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes) always out-perform their customer teams. They do seem to have a lot more money than their customer teams, so I am wondering if the Renault race team is really not well-enough funded. In the last 10 years of their F1 involvement, I was left with the impression that Ford was trying to compete in F1 on a budget. That never works. In F1, until there is a meaningful spending cap that can be fully policed, you spend what you have to spend to win.

Neno
Neno
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Renault ahead of them have toughest time since they likely ever become F1 team. They invested, rebuilded both Viry and Enstone, recruited over 300 people over 2 years all with plans for 2021. And now they are because of bad leadership and how team is run, organized in situation where it feels like dropping bags of money into never ending pit hole. While losing customers in same time. With likely outcome to not supply anyone in 2021 and beyond.

Unless they hit jackpot with 2021 rules and make winning capable car I feel we will lose certainly by 2024 Renault as F1 works team.

Mclarensenna
Mclarensenna
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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https://ibb.co/4tgV5JV
https://ibb.co/JyT5xfb

Not sure how to add these images properly sorry for that.
But look how many sponsors Ferrari has sold just on the Halo itself since last year.
5 sponsors, Shell, Rayban, Riva, UPS, Kaspersky
Renault has not found even 1 paying sponsor yet for this slot. Not 1 so they just stuck their own name there

This extra revenue is spent on the car which is why Ferrari is so quick. Massive budget. This is the job of the manager Cyril to do.
Get as much sponsorship as possible yet still he fails and fails year after year.
Now Cyril lost Mclaren.
When will they replace this guy as i do not see Renault in F1 much longer at this rate unfortunately

gshevlin
gshevlin
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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4 of the 5 sponsors on Ferrari's halo are current long-term sponsors of the team. Now, did they kick in some more $$ to have their names on the halo? Quite possibly. The halo is a new piece of prime advertising real estate on an F1 car.
Ferrari's current collection of sponsors seems to be very stable right now, most of the names have been there for a while. Renault's core collection of sponsors is also stable, but I am guessing that Ferrari's rate card is a wee bit higher than Renault's...

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shotzski
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:18 am
https://ibb.co/4tgV5JV
https://ibb.co/JyT5xfb

Not sure how to add these images properly sorry for that.
But look how many sponsors Ferrari has sold just on the Halo itself since last year.
5 sponsors, Shell, Rayban, Riva, UPS, Kaspersky
Renault has not found even 1 paying sponsor yet for this slot. Not 1 so they just stuck their own name there
AFAIK Philip Morris acts as Ferrari's sponsor agent. They buy the whole sponsorship of the car for a fixed, then sells portions to other paying/potential sponsors. In theory, Ferrari receives money only from Philip Morris.
Anyone can correct me

PowerandtheGlory
PowerandtheGlory
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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The extra income from the Engine deal will be a miss, especially as There as was rumors of a new Mclaren & Renault junior team at one point using Mclaren Chassis and Renault Engine. The budget cap means lots of teams are doing large scale spending now, in advance of the rules coming in- such as Mclaren's new tunnel. On the whole its a loss for Renault financially- but in real terms they were not happy being in direct competition with a team with the same PU, its obviously caused some issues. I think Renault thought they would be far enough ahead this year.. If Renault can deliver a decent Car next year and the engine stays powerful and reliable then Cyril will look like a hero. i was surprised to see that the Renault PU supply was £££ than the merc... but with merc supplying 4 teams then they can effectively offer a cheaper deal cant they? Nice move Mercedes.... Renault need to come up with a plan or run a second team - call it Alpine and paint them Blue... but cant they find a Sheikh or somebody brave enough to fund a startup before the 2021 rules come in.. I think if the budget thing works then they may try to fund a second team under the cap from 2021..
Hamilton will Swap with Vettel in a few years don't worry...
“I don't believe in luck, luck is preparation and taking your opportunity” Ross Brawn

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Jambier
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Location: France

Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Cyril want engine to be frozen, except for reliability
As they were before. It cost significantly less that way.

He also said that providing engine to customer doesn't bring them money, as they have many provider and don't do it all.
That's also why the engine is the most expensive to sell

Anyway, I think there is a big fight for 2021:

- Ferrari threat to use veto
- Renault wants engine freeze and budget cap even lower
- There are many things to discuss for the future

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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gshevlin wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:30 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:39 am
loner wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:18 am
https://twitter.com/RenaultF1Team/statu ... 0918944768
will Renault pull the plug after 2020 ?!!
Renault are actually the only team officially signed beyond 2020.
They could always pay a penalty to leave the contract early. They might do that, with the McLaren decision they have no customer teams after 2020 to help with the cost of powerplant development, and their factory team is not performing as well as their customer team.
My guess is that McLaren decided to move back to Mercedes partly because Renault could not provide with sufficient assurance that they would even be in F1 after 2020.
LibertyF1, IMHO, has a problem of their own making. By keeping most of the current engine specification after 2021, they are trying to lock in existing suppliers, whose R&D costs are mostly spent, but this means that no new suppliers will join (Porsche apparently seriously considered joining but said No after the FIA decided to keep the MGU-H in the new regulations), and if suppliers leave F1, the existing suppliers, under their contracts, will have to supply more teams to make up the shortfall.
The best answer would be a clause in team and engine supplier agreements that mandates a standard engine supplied by a third party if the number of suppliers falls below 3. That would assure continued equitable power plant supply, and also provide the existing suppliers (including Ferrari, the 350 pound gorilla) with an incentive to work together to ensure that existing suppliers stay in the sport.
In the meantime, I consider it very possible that Renault will walk away. Remember that they only agreed to stay after a contentious meeting where Ron Dennis intervened forcefully. Renault were not happy with the commercial terms, and were threatening to leave F1. Ron apparently shouted "just pay them the ***king money".
Liberty didn't create the regs and none of the PU manufactures wanted to change the regs. so I'm not sure how you can blame Liberty.


They're kind of stuck in the middle where electric is too slow for F1 and going back to non hybred is distasteful. So until a new direction surfaces, they'll stay the course.

noname
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:46 pm
(...) Every month that goes by at Renault I am in more shock and amazement how Cyril continues to keep his job.
Cyril is an easy target, but I feel he is only executing strategy defined above him. What surprises me is his willingness to be the face of this farse. Unless he's fine with doing this in sake of being F1 team principal.

"Motorsport on a budget" is what Renault (as a group) has been doing for quite a long time.
Delta Wing and GT-R LM 1st come to mind. Underfunded, underdeveloped, but "look, we are doing something unique, we're innovative".
Adrian Newey in his book recalls meeting with Ghosn - Red Bull's folks left knowning Renault is not gonna seriously commit to F1.
And finally my personal experience with 2014 F1 PU development by Renault. Pre-season testing, when Red Bull struggled to get his car running, summed it up perfectly.