2022 Aero Thread

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FW17
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Front wing endlplate look ugly without the footplate

Image

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Looks really nice...both retro and futuristic...at least from an aesthetics point of view they did a great job! Bring on the big ground effect tunnels =D> =D>

Curious to see what teams are allowed to change on this! Hopefully much, so that we don't end up with a GP1 series...
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

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bauc
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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I will hold my judgment until we see it in full color and lighting
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Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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My question is why are we changing the rules again. In 2014 cars could follow quite easily and we had some of the best racing ever that year yet we still complained.

Will we have another case of when the new reg cars evolve following will become harder year by year as they find more downforce?

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SiLo
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Wass85 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:56 am
My question is why are we changing the rules again. In 2014 cars could follow quite easily and we had some of the best racing ever that year yet we still complained.

Will we have another case of when the new reg cars evolve following will become harder year by year as they find more downforce?
Because as the teams understand the rules more and more, they will naturally design cars that require cleaner and cleaner air to generate downforce.
Felipe Baby!

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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SiLo wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:58 am
Wass85 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:56 am
My question is why are we changing the rules again. In 2014 cars could follow quite easily and we had some of the best racing ever that year yet we still complained.

Will we have another case of when the new reg cars evolve following will become harder year by year as they find more downforce?
Because as the teams understand the rules more and more, they will naturally design cars that require cleaner and cleaner air to generate downforce.
But surely it's in their best interests to disrupt the air flow they give off which in turn makes the following car struggle more?

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Wass85 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:56 am
My question is why are we changing the rules again. In 2014 cars could follow quite easily and we had some of the best racing ever that year yet we still complained.

Will we have another case of when the new reg cars evolve following will become harder year by year as they find more downforce?
People complained that the '14-'16 cars were "too slow" so they made them faster in 2017 then they couldn't follow each other... surprise, surprise! These cars I think will be comparable to now... downforce maybe a bit lower, drag maybe a bit lower, but they're gaining a bit of weight. We'll have to see in pre-season testing for 2021.

The FOM research group will carry on working so they'll test solutions teams find to see how they impact the wakes. It's gonna be an evolving thing.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:01 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:56 am
My question is why are we changing the rules again. In 2014 cars could follow quite easily and we had some of the best racing ever that year yet we still complained.

Will we have another case of when the new reg cars evolve following will become harder year by year as they find more downforce?
People complained that the '14-'16 cars were "too slow" so they made them faster in 2017 then they couldn't follow each other... surprise, surprise! These cars I think will be comparable to now... downforce maybe a bit lower, drag maybe a bit lower, but they're gaining a bit of weight. We'll have to see in pre-season testing for 2021.

The FOM research group will carry on working so they'll test solutions teams find to see how they impact the wakes. It's gonna be an evolving thing.
That's my point, we started complaining they were too slow even though they offered great racing.

The last estimate I saw was that these will be around 5 secs slower, what is the point then?

They always change the regulations just as the competition is at it's strongest, I have a feeling following won't be so easy as they are predicting in the real world. Let's not forget they are running poor tyres.

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FW17
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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This is what should have been done for 2014

Unfortunately Red Bull opposed it

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izzy
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Wass85 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:56 am
My question is why are we changing the rules again. In 2014 cars could follow quite easily and we had some of the best racing ever that year yet we still complained.

Will we have another case of when the new reg cars evolve following will become harder year by year as they find more downforce?
well the first thing is that human nature means that the closer it is to perfect, the more we'll complain about it not being QUITE perfect!! there is no scenario with us not moaning. in fact more moaning is a good sign

and for 2017 they knew they were being stupid, Pat Symonds and everyone told them, but they wanted the cars to look fast , being wider, fat tyres and swept back wings and all that :roll: . it was generally childish and chaotic. Now they've learned a little bit about racing and discovered about following and wakes, done their CFD and used F1 engineers, so it should get better

hopefully there'll be some unintended consequences to keep us amused, like Christian discovering that the new aero-heavy formula he'd longed for meant more time at full throttle for his weak engine :lol:

then next will be (hopefully) the discovery that better car-to-car impact safety that the Hubert crash showed they need means various more changes like impact structures that line up and are much higher rated, so stand by :)

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Wass85 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:08 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:01 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:56 am
My question is why are we changing the rules again. In 2014 cars could follow quite easily and we had some of the best racing ever that year yet we still complained.

Will we have another case of when the new reg cars evolve following will become harder year by year as they find more downforce?
People complained that the '14-'16 cars were "too slow" so they made them faster in 2017 then they couldn't follow each other... surprise, surprise! These cars I think will be comparable to now... downforce maybe a bit lower, drag maybe a bit lower, but they're gaining a bit of weight. We'll have to see in pre-season testing for 2021.

The FOM research group will carry on working so they'll test solutions teams find to see how they impact the wakes. It's gonna be an evolving thing.
That's my point, we started complaining they were too slow even though they offered great racing.

The last estimate I saw was that these will be around 5 secs slower, what is the point then?

They always change the regulations just as the competition is at it's strongest, I have a feeling following won't be so easy as they are predicting in the real world. Let's not forget they are running poor tyres.
5 secs slower is 2017 kind of performance! 2014 cars were 10 secs slower than 2019 cars around Barcelona...that was just miserable for me at least! GP2 egnine GP2 cars :lol: :lol: #Alonso

Problem with 2017 rules was that they didn't think of overtaking even a bit! The 2019 rules are a bit better in terms of overtaking but i believe tires play as big a role in following each other as aero! Tires in 2014 were hard like concrete because Pirelli didn't know what to expect from the new, higher torque engines!

Racing in 2019 is nice i believe...Silverstone was great in terms of racing and overtaking...Leclerc vs Verstappen was a highlight!
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

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djos
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:39 am
Looks really nice...both retro and futuristic...at least from an aesthetics point of view they did a great job! Bring on the big ground effect tunnels =D> =D>

Curious to see what teams are allowed to change on this! Hopefully much, so that we don't end up with a GP1 series...
I like it too, I loved the look of the late 90's / early 2k Champ cars and they prodeuced great racing - I hope this is a new golden era for F1!
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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djos
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Wass85 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:08 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:01 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:56 am
My question is why are we changing the rules again. In 2014 cars could follow quite easily and we had some of the best racing ever that year yet we still complained.

Will we have another case of when the new reg cars evolve following will become harder year by year as they find more downforce?
People complained that the '14-'16 cars were "too slow" so they made them faster in 2017 then they couldn't follow each other... surprise, surprise! These cars I think will be comparable to now... downforce maybe a bit lower, drag maybe a bit lower, but they're gaining a bit of weight. We'll have to see in pre-season testing for 2021.

The FOM research group will carry on working so they'll test solutions teams find to see how they impact the wakes. It's gonna be an evolving thing.
That's my point, we started complaining they were too slow even though they offered great racing.

The last estimate I saw was that these will be around 5 secs slower, what is the point then?

They always change the regulations just as the competition is at it's strongest, I have a feeling following won't be so easy as they are predicting in the real world. Let's not forget they are running poor tyres.
At 5 sec slower, the drivers were getting out of the cars looking like they'd been for a brief stroll - now they have to work for it.
Last edited by djos on Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:34 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:08 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:01 pm


People complained that the '14-'16 cars were "too slow" so they made them faster in 2017 then they couldn't follow each other... surprise, surprise! These cars I think will be comparable to now... downforce maybe a bit lower, drag maybe a bit lower, but they're gaining a bit of weight. We'll have to see in pre-season testing for 2021.

The FOM research group will carry on working so they'll test solutions teams find to see how they impact the wakes. It's gonna be an evolving thing.
That's my point, we started complaining they were too slow even though they offered great racing.

The last estimate I saw was that these will be around 5 secs slower, what is the point then?

They always change the regulations just as the competition is at it's strongest, I have a feeling following won't be so easy as they are predicting in the real world. Let's not forget they are running poor tyres.
5 secs slower is 2017 kind of performance! 2014 cars were 10 secs slower than 2019 cars around Barcelona...that was just miserable for me at least! GP2 egnine GP2 cars :lol: :lol: #Alonso

Problem with 2017 rules was that they didn't think of overtaking even a bit! The 2019 rules are a bit better in terms of overtaking but i believe tires play as big a role in following each other as aero! Tires in 2014 were hard like concrete because Pirelli didn't know what to expect from the new, higher torque engines!

Racing in 2019 is nice i believe...Silverstone was great in terms of racing and overtaking...Leclerc vs Verstappen was a highlight!
2017 cars were 5 seconds slower? I'm sure that's not the case in qualifying compared to 2019.

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Barca quali 2017 was 3.7s off 2019

2014: 85.232s
2015: 84.681s
2016: 82.000s
2017: 79.149s
2018: 76.173s
2019: 75.406s
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica