2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
Big Tea
124
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

turbof1 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:11 pm
Oh dear, I think it is time for some autumn cleaning here. Time to clean out the Maxies, the Hamies and whateveries. And to pull some naughty people on their ears. Looking forward particular to that, just screaming:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4v7wddN-Wg

For now:

CLOOOSEEEEE THE DOOORSSSS
Well this guy is looking for a job now :evil: ( my second favourite speaker of all time)
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

User avatar
turbof1
Moderator
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 pm
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Phil wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:23 pm
...because RedBull and their data seem to think so? They are the ones with all the data after all. I’m purely basing this off their suggestion that Ferrari has lost something.
These graphs suggest they did not lose anything:
The graphs of course don't show everything and it is still possible Ferrari did infact lose something, but it does show the acceleration curve to be pretty consistent with previous races. I personally think the truth is that Red Bull and Mercedes were more competitive and Verstappen mistook that for Ferrari loosing speed.
#AeroFrodo

User avatar
Juzh
513
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Phil wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:54 pm
1.) acceleration phase, not necessarily top speed
Nah, their advantage was in both. I pretty sure after australia where they were down on power, there was not a single track where they didn't top the top speed charts by some margin.

User avatar
MtthsMlw
852
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:38 pm
Location: Germany

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Juzh wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:50 am
Phil wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:54 pm
1.) acceleration phase, not necessarily top speed
Nah, their advantage was in both. I pretty sure after australia where they were down on power, there was not a single track where they didn't top the top speed charts by some margin.
Sochi, Baku, France, Silverstone, Monza (slipstreams) and now Austin if you go from the offical speed trap data from Qualifying. Onboard telemetry might be different though, I guess you're referring to that.
Don't know about who had a slipstream obviously, makes it difficult.

User avatar
Juzh
513
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

MtthsMlw wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:11 am
Juzh wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:50 am
Phil wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:54 pm
1.) acceleration phase, not necessarily top speed
Nah, their advantage was in both. I pretty sure after australia where they were down on power, there was not a single track where they didn't top the top speed charts by some margin.
Sochi, Baku, France, Silverstone, Monza (slipstreams) and now Austin if you go from the offical speed trap data from Qualifying. Onboard telemetry might be different though, I guess you're referring to that.
Don't know about who had a slipstream obviously, makes it difficult.
Yeah I'm only going off of onboard telemetry and only between top 3 team and only quali runs which actually mattered. And in those runs it's indesputable ferrari holds the upper hand, and has continued to do so even in USA.

Another thing, you mentioned sochi, but there was a very specific situation where ferrari was actually so far ahead they were able to shut off ERS assist way before the end of the straight and thus reduced their speeds to merc/RB levels, making it seem like they were even, but in reality they were miles ahead. See? Context is everything in this case.

Because why would one take something like a FI into account with their notoriously low DF desings, or maybe go the other dirrection and take williams into consideration with their drag car gallore.

User avatar
NathanOlder
157
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Just for the record, do we have a list of the time Ferrari were gaining on the straights at races since the summer break ? Quotes from team bosses ect. It would be interesting to see it is a list.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS4.

falonso81
falonso81
6
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:29 pm

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

The Q3 Ferrari runs were pretty messy, sector times all over the place. A lap well put together should have netted them pole still. One should not take belief on such a complex technical matter from an F1 driver who does not even drive for them. What i got for Austin is that Ferrari tried to set up the car for better race pace and they screwed up in the end. Even if they nailed the set up, Charles would have been miles away from the front runners pace with his old and tired engine. Vettel i believe had broken suspension before the start. Maybe he picked up damage on his way to the grid.

User avatar
NathanOlder
157
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

falonso81 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:14 pm
The Q3 Ferrari runs were pretty messy, sector times all over the place. A lap well put together should have netted them pole still. One should not take belief on such a complex technical matter from an F1 driver who does not even drive for them. What i got for Austin is that Ferrari tried to set up the car for better race pace and they screwed up in the end. Even if they nailed the set up, Charles would have been miles away from the front runners pace with his old and tired engine. Vettel i believe had broken suspension before the start. Maybe he picked up damage on his way to the grid.

Im not sure about Vettels car being damaged, when you look at the lap times of Charles vs Lando in the opening 8 laps, ignoring the first 2 laps to let them settle and spread, there was only 1 lap where Chalres was over 1 sec a lap faster. A fair few were 5-8 tenths different and a couple 2-4 tenths.

Now Charles Ferrari was running the old PU but Binotto said was worth the difference between Seb and Charles in qualy (so not much at all)

Now see that Seb was able to sit within 1 second of Ricciardo for pretty much all of the 8 laps would suggest he was faster than Ricciardo but not fast enough to pass. So similar to Charles pace most probably, So I don't see how Seb had any problems until his car actually failed.

In my opinion the reason he was stuck in that position was simply down to lack of power, otherwise a car that was on average 8 tenths faster at that stage of the race would surely have blown by the Renault on the big straight.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS4.

LM10
LM10
106
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:03 pm
falonso81 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:14 pm
The Q3 Ferrari runs were pretty messy, sector times all over the place. A lap well put together should have netted them pole still. One should not take belief on such a complex technical matter from an F1 driver who does not even drive for them. What i got for Austin is that Ferrari tried to set up the car for better race pace and they screwed up in the end. Even if they nailed the set up, Charles would have been miles away from the front runners pace with his old and tired engine. Vettel i believe had broken suspension before the start. Maybe he picked up damage on his way to the grid.

Im not sure about Vettels car being damaged, when you look at the lap times of Charles vs Lando in the opening 8 laps, ignoring the first 2 laps to let them settle and spread, there was only 1 lap where Chalres was over 1 sec a lap faster. A fair few were 5-8 tenths different and a couple 2-4 tenths.

Now Charles Ferrari was running the old PU but Binotto said was worth the difference between Seb and Charles in qualy (so not much at all)

Now see that Seb was able to sit within 1 second of Ricciardo for pretty much all of the 8 laps would suggest he was faster than Ricciardo but not fast enough to pass. So similar to Charles pace most probably, So I don't see how Seb had any problems until his car actually failed.

In my opinion the reason he was stuck in that position was simply down to lack of power, otherwise a car that was on average 8 tenths faster at that stage of the race would surely have blown by the Renault on the big straight.
The Ferraris had major grip problems. Post-race Vettel told that he had no idea what was going on with his car particularly in right corners. Else he would have not informed his team right at the beginning of the race that something was weird with the car, would he? Look at how many positions Vettel lost in the first lap alone. Do you really think that was due to less power?
Same goes for Leclerc grip-wise. He was lacking it especially in his first stint and it got better in the other two stints.

User avatar
NathanOlder
157
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

They were certainly lacking grip. The power thing is still up in the air, what I was getting at more was I don't think sebs car was broken from the start.

Saying that I do remember him launching the car across the curb on lap 1. But that was the left hand side of the car.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS4.

falonso81
falonso81
6
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:29 pm

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

The driver himself radioed the team from lap 1 that his car had very poor handling. That alone makes me think that his suspension may have been damaged or compromised from the get go. All the other cars had no problem riding the curbs.

User avatar
search
9
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:03 pm
Now Charles Ferrari was running the old PU but Binotto said was worth the difference between Seb and Charles in qualy (so not much at all)
~two tenths in Qualifying is what I read, yeah, but you can't just translate that to race speed. The Spec 3 comes with major improvements in terms of fuel consumption, for example, and forms a "unity" with the Singapore aero update, which may not be the case for the Spec 2.

So the difference may have actually been larger for Leclerc in the race

User avatar
NathanOlder
157
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

falonso81 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:55 pm
The driver himself radioed the team from lap 1 that his car had very poor handling. That alone makes me think that his suspension may have been damaged or compromised from the get go. All the other cars had no problem riding the curbs.
Yeah maybe that points to the crazy launch across the curb on lap 1 then .
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS4.

User avatar
izzy
69
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 9:28 pm

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

LM10 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:16 pm
The Ferraris had major grip problems. Post-race Vettel told that he had no idea what was going on with his car particularly in right corners. Else he would have not informed his team right at the beginning of the race that something was weird with the car, would he? Look at how many positions Vettel lost in the first lap alone. Do you really think that was due to less power?
Same goes for Leclerc grip-wise. He was lacking it especially in his first stint and it got better in the other two stints.
i ended up with the impression the team completely lost the setup, which is very complicated i think. This helped them have no tyre temperature at the start, and then if Seb hadn't got it all back by lap 8, and it can be a bit of a circle of doom as we know trying to heat up cold tyres, they'd be down on pressure running the car a bit lower as well

on the engine, Mattia said the Spec2 cost about 0.1, posssibly a bit optimistic but not a huge factor anyway

Xwang
Xwang
24
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post

Italian newspapers report that Vettel's suspension got damaged at the start when he passed near the box exit (outside normal trajectory) where the huge bump was not smoothed.
So probably the suspension geometry was wrong or loose and he had problems.
Then it completely broke at the 8th lap.
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.