Racing games

[Wass85]

I'll take you on whenever you fancy. I've just put GT Sport on after having a couple of months on PC2. I can't get within 2 seconds of my best times on time trial at Catalunya and Nurburgring.

[Alonso Fan]

Well its used as an official game for the eSports championship, so it can't be too bad. It's definitely the best F1 game to date.

I find with all racing games I've ever played, that people will complain that they are not accurate sims and cars don't drive like that ect ect are normally the guys that struggle for pace. Its an easy excuse.

And what makes me laugh is (as an example) playing F1 2019 in a Ferrari, "The car is crap, it handles all wrong ect ect" . Yeah you know that becasue you've driven a formula one car recently ?!

I find with F1 games, the biggest problem for me is the track limits. Some places you get away with murder, others you can get penalties for 2 wheels off the track on the outside of a corner.

First point is obvious. It's the only official game available.

2nd point is a bit odd. Why would Sim racers with hours and hours of experience on r factor assetto corsa and iracing struggle at a game you can even play with a keyboard? I used to play f1 2013 with a keyboard and top online leader boards.

Penultimate point is somewhat naive. Of course no general person knows how a specific f1 car feels in real life. But you have a general idea that (for example) running the lowest down force settings at Monaco isn't the fastest setup. But in code masters f1 games, it is the fastest setup. Add to that the fact that the force feedback in steering wheels often doesn't convey too well the information a driver needs to know if the car is about to snap, is understeering etc. Also to drive at the limit, you often need to do unconventional things in these f1 games, like go full throttle mid corner in a corner that no f1 driver would even dream of putting full throttle even for a short blip. Add to that visual glitches. The tyres don't actually roll on the ground. It's easy to see at the Monaco hairpin. When you go full lock, the front tyres "skate" along the track surface. The pivot point of the car doesn't seem to be at the front wheels like it should. Also have you seen that joke of a pitstop animation? Drivers inputs and angle of the tyres don't even match the direction of the car moving! You'd have thought they'd have fixed this by now!

Those are just a few points. But the biggest one for me is how the cars behave on the track. How the suspension reacts to kerbs and bumps, how the steering wheel movements match up (or don't match) what the car is doing on track.

In a Sim like ac, you instantly feel a difference. The fastest way to drive in ac is the same as real life, and that's by experience. At one time, I was struggling to get some decent laptimes out of the corvette c7.r and so I watched a pov video of one being driven at daytona. That thought me to trail brake into long corners and use more steering lock, since that car has a less sensitive rack compared to (for example) a 911 rsr 2017 gte. Also you can feel every setup change. No cheaty setups will work. Also there is not just one fastest setup like there tends to be with f1 games. You set the car up to suit your driving style, like in real life. Also you can feel when the car is about to snap, when you're getting understeer, when the tyres bite. You can feel all that. And when you overdo it and crash, you're just in awe that the car behaved as you expected. Cars have a weight to them. They don't feel floaty. You can really throw some cars around and get the expected results. For example, in a Sim like AC you can force and inherently understeery car into oversteer by chucking it around, like in real life. A good example of this is the audio qiattro group b car. It will understeer for days but give it a scandi flick or two and it'll happily hold a slide. The original car was notirious for the same thing. This fact was well publicised. Now do i really know if that handling matched the real car one to one? No. And most likely it doesn't. But it certainly handles like a real car, and it's very plausible.

So, are the f1 games a simulator? Yes. They use a physics engine which simulates cars driving on a track, tyre temperatures, fuel levels, engine mixtures (as opposed to an animation based games). (Except for the odd precoded spin and side pod glitches of old. Those weren't physics based)

Are they realistic and accurate? No simulator is truly realistic and accurate. But the f1 games have some way to go to be at the level of r factor, AC and I racing. Grand prix 2, 3, and 4 had more accurate physics than the current f1 games. Also had a proper dynamic wet to dry track cycle where the dry line appeared first. Always a fun challenge to drive that dry line on slicks or inters. This is why the f1 games are often called sincade. Some elements of a simulator and some elements of arcade games

Disclaimer: this post is referring purely to driving dynamics and car handling.

[NathanOlder]

Well its used as an official game for the eSports championship, so it can't be too bad. It's definitely the best F1 game to date.

I find with all racing games I've ever played, that people will complain that they are not accurate sims and cars don't drive like that ect ect are normally the guys that struggle for pace. Its an easy excuse.

And what makes me laugh is (as an example) playing F1 2019 in a Ferrari, "The car is crap, it handles all wrong ect ect" . Yeah you know that becasue you've driven a formula one car recently ?!

I find with F1 games, the biggest problem for me is the track limits. Some places you get away with murder, others you can get penalties for 2 wheels off the track on the outside of a corner.

First point is obvious. It's the only official game available.

2nd point is a bit odd. Why would Sim racers with hours and hours of experience on r factor assetto corsa and iracing struggle at a game you can even play with a keyboard? I used to play f1 2013 with a keyboard and top online leader boards.

Penultimate point is somewhat naive. Of course no general person knows how a specific f1 car feels in real life. But you have a general idea that (for example) running the lowest down force settings at Monaco isn't the fastest setup. But in code masters f1 games, it is the fastest setup. Add to that the fact that the force feedback in steering wheels often doesn't convey too well the information a driver needs to know if the car is about to snap, is understeering etc. Also to drive at the limit, you often need to do unconventional things in these f1 games, like go full throttle mid corner in a corner that no f1 driver would even dream of putting full throttle even for a short blip. Add to that visual glitches. The tyres don't actually roll on the ground. It's easy to see at the Monaco hairpin. When you go full lock, the front tyres "skate" along the track surface. The pivot point of the car doesn't seem to be at the front wheels like it should. Also have you seen that joke of a pitstop animation? Drivers inputs and angle of the tyres don't even match the direction of the car moving! You'd have thought they'd have fixed this by now!

Those are just a few points. But the biggest one for me is how the cars behave on the track. How the suspension reacts to kerbs and bumps, how the steering wheel movements match up (or don't match) what the car is doing on track.

In a Sim like ac, you instantly feel a difference. The fastest way to drive in ac is the same as real life, and that's by experience. At one time, I was struggling to get some decent laptimes out of the corvette c7.r and so I watched a pov video of one being driven at daytona. That thought me to trail brake into long corners and use more steering lock, since that car has a less sensitive rack compared to (for example) a 911 rsr 2017 gte. Also you can feel every setup change. No cheaty setups will work. Also there is not just one fastest setup like there tends to be with f1 games. You set the car up to suit your driving style, like in real life. Also you can feel when the car is about to snap, when you're getting understeer, when the tyres bite. You can feel all that. And when you overdo it and crash, you're just in awe that the car behaved as you expected. Cars have a weight to them. They don't feel floaty. You can really throw some cars around and get the expected results. For example, in a Sim like AC you can force and inherently understeery car into oversteer by chucking it around, like in real life. A good example of this is the audio qiattro group b car. It will understeer for days but give it a scandi flick or two and it'll happily hold a slide. The original car was notirious for the same thing. This fact was well publicised. Now do i really know if that handling matched the real car one to one? No. And most likely it doesn't. But it certainly handles like a real car, and it's very plausible.

So, are the f1 games a simulator? Yes. They use a physics engine which simulates cars driving on a track, tyre temperatures, fuel levels, engine mixtures (as opposed to an animation based games). (Except for the odd precoded spin and side pod glitches of old. Those weren't physics based)

Are they realistic and accurate? No simulator is truly realistic and accurate. But the f1 games have some way to go to be at the level of r factor, AC and I racing. Grand prix 2, 3, and 4 had more accurate physics than the current f1 games. Also had a proper dynamic wet to dry track cycle where the dry line appeared first. Always a fun challenge to drive that dry line on slicks or inters. This is why the f1 games are often called sincade. Some elements of a simulator and some elements of arcade games

Disclaimer: this post is referring purely to driving dynamics and car handling.

Once I got to the "minimum downforce at monaco is fastest" I didnt bother reading the rest im afraid, just skimmed it. If thats what you think is the case, then you clearly haven't played the latest games.

Compared to other games, of course its not as good as others like iRacing and rFactor in the physics side, no one said it was, but iRacing costs a damn site more to play. You get what you pay for. To play F1 on the Ps4 is a fraction of the cost compared to running a PC sim to the same visuals.

and for the record, I have played a hell of a lot of rFactor, and a years worth of iRacing a few years ago to get the most out of my motion sim.

[Alonso Fan]

Well its used as an official game for the eSports championship, so it can't be too bad. It's definitely the best F1 game to date.

I find with all racing games I've ever played, that people will complain that they are not accurate sims and cars don't drive like that ect ect are normally the guys that struggle for pace. Its an easy excuse.

And what makes me laugh is (as an example) playing F1 2019 in a Ferrari, "The car is crap, it handles all wrong ect ect" . Yeah you know that becasue you've driven a formula one car recently ?!

I find with F1 games, the biggest problem for me is the track limits. Some places you get away with murder, others you can get penalties for 2 wheels off the track on the outside of a corner.

First point is obvious. It's the only official game available.

2nd point is a bit odd. Why would Sim racers with hours and hours of experience on r factor assetto corsa and iracing struggle at a game you can even play with a keyboard? I used to play f1 2013 with a keyboard and top online leader boards.

Penultimate point is somewhat naive. Of course no general person knows how a specific f1 car feels in real life. But you have a general idea that (for example) running the lowest down force settings at Monaco isn't the fastest setup. But in code masters f1 games, it is the fastest setup. Add to that the fact that the force feedback in steering wheels often doesn't convey too well the information a driver needs to know if the car is about to snap, is understeering etc. Also to drive at the limit, you often need to do unconventional things in these f1 games, like go full throttle mid corner in a corner that no f1 driver would even dream of putting full throttle even for a short blip. Add to that visual glitches. The tyres don't actually roll on the ground. It's easy to see at the Monaco hairpin. When you go full lock, the front tyres "skate" along the track surface. The pivot point of the car doesn't seem to be at the front wheels like it should. Also have you seen that joke of a pitstop animation? Drivers inputs and angle of the tyres don't even match the direction of the car moving! You'd have thought they'd have fixed this by now!

Those are just a few points. But the biggest one for me is how the cars behave on the track. How the suspension reacts to kerbs and bumps, how the steering wheel movements match up (or don't match) what the car is doing on track.

In a Sim like ac, you instantly feel a difference. The fastest way to drive in ac is the same as real life, and that's by experience. At one time, I was struggling to get some decent laptimes out of the corvette c7.r and so I watched a pov video of one being driven at daytona. That thought me to trail brake into long corners and use more steering lock, since that car has a less sensitive rack compared to (for example) a 911 rsr 2017 gte. Also you can feel every setup change. No cheaty setups will work. Also there is not just one fastest setup like there tends to be with f1 games. You set the car up to suit your driving style, like in real life. Also you can feel when the car is about to snap, when you're getting understeer, when the tyres bite. You can feel all that. And when you overdo it and crash, you're just in awe that the car behaved as you expected. Cars have a weight to them. They don't feel floaty. You can really throw some cars around and get the expected results. For example, in a Sim like AC you can force and inherently understeery car into oversteer by chucking it around, like in real life. A good example of this is the audio qiattro group b car. It will understeer for days but give it a scandi flick or two and it'll happily hold a slide. The original car was notirious for the same thing. This fact was well publicised. Now do i really know if that handling matched the real car one to one? No. And most likely it doesn't. But it certainly handles like a real car, and it's very plausible.

So, are the f1 games a simulator? Yes. They use a physics engine which simulates cars driving on a track, tyre temperatures, fuel levels, engine mixtures (as opposed to an animation based games). (Except for the odd precoded spin and side pod glitches of old. Those weren't physics based)

Are they realistic and accurate? No simulator is truly realistic and accurate. But the f1 games have some way to go to be at the level of r factor, AC and I racing. Grand prix 2, 3, and 4 had more accurate physics than the current f1 games. Also had a proper dynamic wet to dry track cycle where the dry line appeared first. Always a fun challenge to drive that dry line on slicks or inters. This is why the f1 games are often called sincade. Some elements of a simulator and some elements of arcade games

Disclaimer: this post is referring purely to driving dynamics and car handling.

Once I got to the "minimum downforce at monaco is fastest" I didnt bother reading the rest im afraid, just skimmed it. If thats what you think is the case, then you clearly haven't played the latest games.

Compared to other games, of course its not as good as others like iRacing and rFactor in the physics side, no one said it was, but iRacing costs a damn site more to play. You get what you pay for. To play F1 on the Ps4 is a fraction of the cost compared to running a PC sim to the same visuals.

and for the record, I have played a hell of a lot of rFactor, and a years worth of iRacing a few years ago to get the most out of my motion sim.

I know i racing costs lots and that's why I play AC. With I racing you dont get what you pay for. You get less. with AC and r factor you get more than what you pay for. AC is dirt cheap now

Also wasn't having a go at you specifically, just some of the points you shared which are usually opinions of those who haven't even looked into what Sim racing is

It's good that you play r factor e with

But saying that folks who so race have no idea how a specific car should handle is a bit extreme. Of course we won't know the exact characteristics but we'll have an idea based off facts, like, if the car is rear or front wheel drive, what drivers said about the handling of the car, does it have a na or turbo charged engine, is it hybrid, is it aero dependant, and that kind of thing. Audi quattro s1 in AC is an excellent example of this very point. Understeer like a bus. But with the correct driving style, you can pitch it into a slide and hold it pretty well. That's how it behaved in real life and Blomqvist’s driving style was centered around this, pitching the car into slides to overcome the deficiencies of its Inherent understeer

[NathanOlder]

Fair enough, I understand what your saying, and agree.

But there's no way that the Codemasters games are as bad as you say. They can't be that bad. (I don't work for codemasters by the way )

[mertol]

Well its used as an official game for the eSports championship, so it can't be too bad. It's definitely the best F1 game to date.

I find with all racing games I've ever played, that people will complain that they are not accurate sims and cars don't drive like that ect ect are normally the guys that struggle for pace. Its an easy excuse.

And what makes me laugh is (as an example) playing F1 2019 in a Ferrari, "The car is crap, it handles all wrong ect ect" . Yeah you know that becasue you've driven a formula one car recently ?!

I find with F1 games, the biggest problem for me is the track limits. Some places you get away with murder, others you can get penalties for 2 wheels off the track on the outside of a corner.

A crapmasters game realistic lol

What game would you recommend for current F1 cars?

Being the only title doesn't make them realistic it makes them afraid of competition.

[NathanOlder]

being the only title makes it the most realistic though

[mertol]

The Mclaren in iracing is more realistic as a 2019 car. It maybe from 2015 but unlike anything from crapmasters it behaves like an open wheel car.

[El Scorchio]

The Mclaren in iracing is more realistic as a 2019 car. It maybe from 2015 but unlike anything from crapmasters it behaves like an open wheel car.

You have to remember they aren’t catering for hardcore racing Sim fans who crave a 100% true to life experience. It’s a mass market product which needs to be accessible and shift units. Too much Deep detail will turn most people off so of course it’s not going to be ultra realistic, nowhere near as much as some of the other games and platforms mentioned.

Horses for courses. Could they do a better job? Yes. Are they trying to make a 100% accurate product? No they are not.

[mertol]

That's irrelevant because we are discussing realism and not how many people are playing it. Also it's a flawed argument because the amoung of online players is similar between iracing and f1 2019.

[Alonso Fan]

The Mclaren in iracing is more realistic as a 2019 car. It maybe from 2015 but unlike anything from crapmasters it behaves like an open wheel car.

You have to remember they aren’t catering for hardcore racing Sim fans who crave a 100% true to life experience. It’s a mass market product which needs to be accessible and shift units. Too much Deep detail will turn most people off so of course it’s not going to be ultra realistic, nowhere near as much as some of the other games and platforms mentioned.

Horses for courses. Could they do a better job? Yes. Are they trying to make a 100% accurate product? No they are not.

That's basically it yes. They can make Sim level games. Just look at the dirt rally series.

And for a pure arcade, look at the new grid. Totally different products which cater for different audiences

[Alonso Fan]

Fair enough, I understand what your saying, and agree.

But there's no way that the Codemasters games are as bad as you say. They can't be that bad. (I don't work for codemasters by the way )

pitstop animations are still there...

[mertol]

Dirt series is the same garbage as f1 series. Dirt rally is the best in the series and it's still mediocre. It couldn't even improve on RBR which is from 2005. It has horrible damage, and fudged physics. Max rear brake bias is always fastest and the cars have auto-correcting aerodynamics. Just find a big jump and try to jump with a car sideways to see how it curves while in the air. This force acts on the car not only when in the air but also when you go sideways on the ground.

[RZS10]

I only drove some hotlaps when they had the free weekend ... is the AI still as cheaty as it was in the previous games?

I remember that it did somewhat believable laptimes when close to the player but was way too fast once out of sight, they were "faster than quali laptimes" fast in the race.

Did they bring back all practice sessions or is it still the same garbage with just one?

[NathanOlder]

I only drove some hotlaps when they had the free weekend ... is the AI still as cheaty as it was in the previous games?

I remember that it did somewhat believable laptimes when close to the player but was way too fast once out of sight, they were "faster than quali laptimes" fast in the race.

Did they bring back all practice sessions or is it still the same garbage with just one?

Are you talking about F1? The AI will never do what you said, never. As for the practice sessions, they have had all 3 practice sessions in there for the last 10 years.

So I have no clue what you were playing? sounds like Mario Kart.