Tire compound.. overlooked in the overtaking strategy?

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West
West
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Joined: 07 Jan 2004, 00:42
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Tire compound.. overlooked in the overtaking strategy?

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You guys are saying stuff I used to know... damn my job sucks; forgetting everything already.

I haven't followed F1 technology-wise recently, but I am going to guess that the tires will be made somewhat with info from 2005, when Kimi had that awesome crash at the Nurburgring. A harder tire w/o the edginess of the grooved tires? I might be off my rocker here...
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Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

Re: Tire compound.. overlooked in the overtaking strategy?

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Tom please explain why slick tyres grain as easily as grooved tyres.
While i know slicks tyres grain also the grooves do make the heating repartition a bit hard and are prone to graining.

So why it isn't the case?

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Tire compound.. overlooked in the overtaking strategy?

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Not sure what you mean by "heating repartition."

Grooves don't cause graining. You might decrease the footprint area a bit and up the shear stress on the compound... which will make it a bit more abusive to that end... but tires grain up by being too soft/weak for the application, and/or by overdriving them. Can overdrive slicks just like you can overdrive grooved tires.

It might be a wash. More area will be less abusive, but if I had to guess the slicks will run a little warmer. Who knows. Point being that grooves or those edges don't cause tires to grain, though they can make for some weird wear.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Tire compound.. overlooked in the overtaking strategy?

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First, I think that people is overtaking normally. When you measure overtaking you find it is pretty stable for the last 10 years, as I've shown a couple of times. Sorry for the old graph, but I am to lazy to look for a more recent version:

Image

Second, may I add some more definitions?

Hardness, actually, can mean any of three things. There they go:

1. Scratch hardness: resistance for the material to be ripped out by friction. I think this is what we mean when we talk of "hard" or "soft" tyres. It depends on the plastic deformation that the material can take before breaking.

2. Indentation hardness: resistance to penetration by a hard object (the one you measure with the Mohs scale) at constant load. In this sense, diamond is the hardest. I don't think it's important for racing tyres.

3. Rebound hardness: capacity to rebound under load. Depends on the elasticity. It is very important in racing tyres, as explained here. Rubber has an elasticity that varies a lot under load (up to 1.000 times of variation, depending on the speed of the load).

Delamination: a fancy word for chunks of rubber ripped out of the tyre. Pieces of the thread part company with the carcasse. Normally, it's caused by heating of the tyres.

Racing front tyre showing normal wear (thanks to the article recommended by DaveKillens ages ago)
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Extremely grained front tyre, almost fully delaminated.
Image

The heat that provokes this kind of delamination is caused by understeer. You see it in the front tyres, even on TV: they become gray (stop shining) in the entrance of curves because they heat too much.

The "uneveness" in tyre heating that Jersey Tom asks about (I think) was explained in another thread, here: check flynfrog posts, down the thread.

Chatter: same thing, chunks ripped out of your tyre, but because the tyres develop more force than the chassis can handle.

Racing rear tyre grained in the inside (bottom of the picture). Ask yourself if you're setting or asking for too much camber. Notice the graining is not continous, suggesting the car slips in heavy acceleration or lacks chassis rigidity
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Blistering: blistered tyres are conventionally blamed on a fault of the manufacturer OR on a driver too hard on the throttle at the exit of curves.

Blistered wet racing tyre, posted here by f1.redbaron. Too hard on the throttle, or bad chosen or deflated tyres (they heat internally, because of too much flexing)
Image

Third, as you can see, no one of these definitions takes in account the grooving of tyres. Grooved tyres have a larger load (that's what the grooves are for), that's it. Grooved tyres should grain easier than slicks because of a larger load.

In the end, FIA wants to limit speeds on fast curves, as article 12 in FIA 2009 regulations says:
If, in the interests of maintaining current levels of circuit safety, the FIA deems it necessary to reduce tyre grip, it shall introduce such rules as the tyre supplier may advise or, in the absence of advice which achieves the FIA's objectives, specify the maximum permissible contact areas for front and rear tyres.
Fourth and finally, what you're going to have next year are tyres that are less loaded, because aerodynamic loads will be smaller, "compensating" the grooves. The tyres will be smaller, because of the grooves, but will be less loaded, because of aerodynamic restrictions.

I think tyres will last more, you'll have less marbles, cars will be slower on fast curves but harder to handle on slower ones.

Let's wait and see, but it sounds like a good idea to me.
Ciro

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WhiteBlue
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Tire compound.. overlooked in the overtaking strategy?

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Nice write up by Ciro.

In the end we will not know because nobody knows what Bridgestone will do in terms of compound and construction compared to this years grooved tyres.

Their boss commented that the difference between a prime and an option will be more radical than it was this season. So it could well be that the option has fantastic one lap performance and terrible graining from lap 5. And the prime may be halve a second slower on one lap but no problems of graining at all. Its completly in the hand of the tyre company. So with the option tyre we could have as many marbles as with some grooved tyres. I don't think it will ever get back to the times of the tyre war when you had a racing line at Hungary that looked like the Grand Canyon between mountains of marbles.
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Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Tire compound.. overlooked in the overtaking strategy?

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You're right on delamination being components of the tire shearing or flying off.. though that photo you show isn't quite the same thing. It's not graining either. Not sure if I'm free to say what it is or what causes it.

Chatter is a little different though. At least in the context I use, it's more of a violent vibration of the tire when it's put into an operating range it doesn't like.

That article that was referenced.. from Inside Racing Technology.. Paul Haney is generally fairly knowledgeable about tires but I don't agree with him on some things. Like everything I take it with a grain of salt.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.