McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

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Ground Effect
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Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

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Regarding engine packaging,does anyone have a comparison between the last Renault powered Red Bull (RB14) and the MCL34? It would be interesting to see and could give an indication of what may still be achievable with the 35
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Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

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Well no time for perspective corrections... I will make a better one in time
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f1rules
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Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

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Seem mclaren head of aero is leaving, not prodroumo another, Guillaume Cattelani

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Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

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f1rules wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:43 pm
Seem mclaren head of aero is leaving, not prodroumo another, Guillaume Cattelani
Really? What's your source?

So two "free" Head of Aero (Machin, Cattelani)

Maybe Cattelani is the one joining Renault in 2020.

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Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

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Twitter soymotor and formulapssion.it

He is going to haas, one of them says its more a organisational role as he has been running the aero department on day to day business

https://soymotor.com/noticias/mclaren-p ... ani-971961
Last edited by f1rules on Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

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Why would a team choose high over low rake? What considerations does one need to take for the rest of the chassis in order to use one philosophy or the other? The higher the rake the closer the front wing is to the ground, the closer the T-tray is to the ground, and the higher your diffuser and rear wing. The rake of the car changes at speed because of the aero loading, it also changes under braking, and acceleration, and transient maneuvers. So depending on setup your static rake could be no rake at all at speed, or less rake, or more depending on the onset of aero loading. Rake also has the effect of determining how soon you can create meaningful downforce, higher rake tends to produce more downforce at lower speeds, but stalls at higher speeds. Lower rake has the opposite effect, being more stable at higher speeds, but not generating as much downforce at lower speeds. Rake is also dependent on wheelbase, because the length of the floor, or the size of the bargeboards is influenced by the length of the car.

With a higher rake, smaller wheelbase car you depend more on the front end of the car to seal the sides of the floor, and limit the amount of airflow you can feed the diffuser. With a lower rake, longer wheelbase car, it makes it slightly easier to seal the sides of the floor with the bargeboards, so you can divert more airflow to the diffuser.

Another benefit of a longer car is that it can be made thinner as a result.
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LM10
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Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:28 pm
Why would a team choose high over low rake? What considerations does one need to take for the rest of the chassis in order to use one philosophy or the other? The higher the rake the closer the front wing is to the ground, the closer the T-tray is to the ground, and the higher your diffuser and rear wing. The rake of the car changes at speed because of the aero loading, it also changes under braking, and acceleration, and transient maneuvers. So depending on setup your static rake could be no rake at all at speed, or less rake, or more depending on the onset of aero loading. Rake also has the effect of determining how soon you can create meaningful downforce, higher rake tends to produce more downforce at lower speeds, but stalls at higher speeds. Lower rake has the opposite effect, being more stable at higher speeds, but not generating as much downforce at lower speeds. Rake is also dependent on wheelbase, because the length of the floor, or the size of the bargeboards is influenced by the length of the car.

With a higher rake, smaller wheelbase car you depend more on the front end of the car to seal the sides of the floor, and limit the amount of airflow you can feed the diffuser. With a lower rake, longer wheelbase car, it makes it slightly easier to seal the sides of the floor with the bargeboards, so you can divert more airflow to the diffuser.

Another benefit of a longer car is that it can be made thinner as a result.
If yes, Mercedes managed something unusual then. Generating most downforce at low speeds with the longest wheelbase and lowest rake.

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LM10 wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:21 am
godlameroso wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:28 pm
Why would a team choose high over low rake? What considerations does one need to take for the rest of the chassis in order to use one philosophy or the other? The higher the rake the closer the front wing is to the ground, the closer the T-tray is to the ground, and the higher your diffuser and rear wing. The rake of the car changes at speed because of the aero loading, it also changes under braking, and acceleration, and transient maneuvers. So depending on setup your static rake could be no rake at all at speed, or less rake, or more depending on the onset of aero loading. Rake also has the effect of determining how soon you can create meaningful downforce, higher rake tends to produce more downforce at lower speeds, but stalls at higher speeds. Lower rake has the opposite effect, being more stable at higher speeds, but not generating as much downforce at lower speeds. Rake is also dependent on wheelbase, because the length of the floor, or the size of the bargeboards is influenced by the length of the car.

With a higher rake, smaller wheelbase car you depend more on the front end of the car to seal the sides of the floor, and limit the amount of airflow you can feed the diffuser. With a lower rake, longer wheelbase car, it makes it slightly easier to seal the sides of the floor with the bargeboards, so you can divert more airflow to the diffuser.

Another benefit of a longer car is that it can be made thinner as a result.
If yes, Mercedes managed something unusual then. Generating most downforce at low speeds with the longest wheelbase and lowest rake.
They found the right compromise. They leaned on their mechanical grip at low speeds, and bolted on all the downforce they could. Besides less rake doesn't mean low speed downforce vanishes, it's just a relative POV.
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NathanOlder
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Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:28 pm
Why would a team choose high over low rake? What considerations does one need to take for the rest of the chassis in order to use one philosophy or the other? The higher the rake the closer the front wing is to the ground, the closer the T-tray is to the ground, and the higher your diffuser and rear wing. The rake of the car changes at speed because of the aero loading, it also changes under braking, and acceleration, and transient maneuvers. So depending on setup your static rake could be no rake at all at speed, or less rake, or more depending on the onset of aero loading. Rake also has the effect of determining how soon you can create meaningful downforce, higher rake tends to produce more downforce at lower speeds, but stalls at higher speeds. Lower rake has the opposite effect, being more stable at higher speeds, but not generating as much downforce at lower speeds. Rake is also dependent on wheelbase, because the length of the floor, or the size of the bargeboards is influenced by the length of the car.

With a higher rake, smaller wheelbase car you depend more on the front end of the car to seal the sides of the floor, and limit the amount of airflow you can feed the diffuser. With a lower rake, longer wheelbase car, it makes it slightly easier to seal the sides of the floor with the bargeboards, so you can divert more airflow to the diffuser.

Another benefit of a longer car is that it can be made thinner as a result.
I thought the front wing had a set minimum height while the car is static. Therefore the rake won't matter, the front wings will all be at the minimum height. Or is that completely wrong
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Front wing height is relative to the reference plane. If the reference plane is raked relative to the ground then the front wing gets closer to the ground.
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Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

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LM10 wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:21 am
godlameroso wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:28 pm
Why would a team choose high over low rake? What considerations does one need to take for the rest of the chassis in order to use one philosophy or the other? The higher the rake the closer the front wing is to the ground, the closer the T-tray is to the ground, and the higher your diffuser and rear wing. The rake of the car changes at speed because of the aero loading, it also changes under braking, and acceleration, and transient maneuvers. So depending on setup your static rake could be no rake at all at speed, or less rake, or more depending on the onset of aero loading. Rake also has the effect of determining how soon you can create meaningful downforce, higher rake tends to produce more downforce at lower speeds, but stalls at higher speeds. Lower rake has the opposite effect, being more stable at higher speeds, but not generating as much downforce at lower speeds. Rake is also dependent on wheelbase, because the length of the floor, or the size of the bargeboards is influenced by the length of the car.

With a higher rake, smaller wheelbase car you depend more on the front end of the car to seal the sides of the floor, and limit the amount of airflow you can feed the diffuser. With a lower rake, longer wheelbase car, it makes it slightly easier to seal the sides of the floor with the bargeboards, so you can divert more airflow to the diffuser.

Another benefit of a longer car is that it can be made thinner as a result.
If yes, Mercedes managed something unusual then. Generating most downforce at low speeds with the longest wheelbase and lowest rake.
The way I see it, high Rake gives you a larger range of rear wing angle Delta. If both a high rake and low rake car have the same rear wing angle at a stand still, the high rake car will have less rear wing angle at full squat than the low rake. If the only variable between the 2 cars is the rake, the high rake car should be able to achieve higher top speeds while maintaining the same amount of DF at slower speeds.


The rear springs will have a HUGE effect on when the car starts to squat and therefore DF levels at different speeds.


Merc, since 2014, have had an edge in HP which is probably the reason why they haven't invested more time on larger rake. Smaller rake, as godlameroso stated, is easier to get right. 2019 was the first year that the Merc's have seems ordinary in the speed traps. IF you think of that sprint to the finish line with Hamilton STR...STR has much more rake and likely alot less DF at that point.

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Off topic!

The post above is why I love the per-season ... we get to discuss details from a reelection image of the helmet via phone camera :)
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