Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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nzjrs
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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saviour stivala wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:20 am
In 2019 season no Honda engine was raced for seven races. On average Honda used 6 ICE per car, 5.25 TC per car, 5.25 H per car, 4.5 K per car, 3 ES per car and 3 CE per car.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

On average my wife and I are half pregnant!

(in case you miss the point: honestly ask yourself if average is a useful metric here. The answer is of course no)

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Wouter
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:16 pm
I would say 2019 was more like "get more HP at any cost" for Honda! So now that at least in race trim they are almost there with Mercedes and Ferrari...they can look after reliability in the winter!
So to sum it all up i think RB16 will be...get the same downforce with lower drag for Red Bull...get the same horsepower
with better reliability for Honda! At least for the start of the year...
Why look after reliability in the winter?? #-o Read the post of @Capharol please.

From a large interview with Max I posted this morning in the RBR team Topic:
And what do you expect next year from Red Bull’s engine partner, Honda?

“More power! The reliability has been really good this year, we’ve never retired because of a problem from their side. So for them, I think this season has been a breakthrough. Of course we had some victories already; they were really happy with that, I think it was a big boost for the whole company, and they’re very motivated. I think we’re on the right path, and when you see the engine power compared to Mercedes and Renault, we’re very close to Mercedes now,
so that’s of course very promising for next year.

kfrantzios
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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Capharol wrote:
kfrantzios wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:02 pm
I never said that they don't last 7 races. I said that they haven't yet.
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it's funny tho.... that most ppl saying "Honda has a reliabillty problem, because they didn't last 7 races"

honestly i am getting sick of this talk, because the reason WHY they haven't last 7 races is because Honda and RB agreed to bring updates whenever neccesarry to catch up the Mercedes PU and both parties knew they wouldn't be fighting for WCC or WDC anyway and that 2019 was a transition year.
and they used the older engine on a friday practice.

and still Max Verstappen finished 3rd in the Championship so can you ppl please stop this "reliabillity BS" because you are seeking something that is not there, only to batter on the Honda engine somehow/someway.

to hop back on topic.... i think RB will be a lot closer this year because the package is, not perfect, but very good


and happy holiday
Sure. By your narrative, Honda is the most reliable engine. All of the other manufacturers had at least one engine related problem. So, if they have surpassed Mercedes in engine power and reliability, they don't need so many updates, do they?

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aral
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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Just a reminder.....talk about the reliability or otherwise of the Honda PU should be discussed on the dedicated Honda PU thread

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Capharol
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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kfrantzios wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:55 pm
Capharol wrote:
kfrantzios wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:02 pm
I never said that they don't last 7 races. I said that they haven't yet.
Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
it's funny tho.... that most ppl saying "Honda has a reliabillty problem, because they didn't last 7 races"

honestly i am getting sick of this talk, because the reason WHY they haven't last 7 races is because Honda and RB agreed to bring updates whenever neccesarry to catch up the Mercedes PU and both parties knew they wouldn't be fighting for WCC or WDC anyway and that 2019 was a transition year.
and they used the older engine on a friday practice.

and still Max Verstappen finished 3rd in the Championship so can you ppl please stop this "reliabillity BS" because you are seeking something that is not there, only to batter on the Honda engine somehow/someway.

to hop back on topic.... i think RB will be a lot closer this year because the package is, not perfect, but very good


and happy holiday
Sure. By your narrative, Honda is the most reliable engine. All of the other manufacturers had at least one engine related problem. So, if they have surpassed Mercedes in engine power and reliability, they don't need so many updates, do they?

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here my answer viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921&p=878631#p878631

because aral is right.
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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Wouter wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:14 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:16 pm
I would say 2019 was more like "get more HP at any cost" for Honda! So now that at least in race trim they are almost there with Mercedes and Ferrari...they can look after reliability in the winter!
So to sum it all up i think RB16 will be...get the same downforce with lower drag for Red Bull...get the same horsepower
with better reliability for Honda! At least for the start of the year...
Why look after reliability in the winter?? #-o Read the post of @Capharol please.

From a large interview with Max I posted this morning in the RBR team Topic:
And what do you expect next year from Red Bull’s engine partner, Honda?

“More power! The reliability has been really good this year, we’ve never retired because of a problem from their side. So for them, I think this season has been a breakthrough. Of course we had some victories already; they were really happy with that, I think it was a big boost for the whole company, and they’re very motivated. I think we’re on the right path, and when you see the engine power compared to Mercedes and Renault, we’re very close to Mercedes now,
so that’s of course very promising for next year.
Because they used 5 engines (TR even used 7) to get through the season maybe?? They didn't have a DNF because of engine issues but they didn't use an engine for 7 races to see if that would have happened!

Mercedes and Ferrari used just 3 or 4 engines depending on the driver! And in 2020 we have 22 races! If you want to win in a season long campaign against Mercedes you have to minimize engine penalties i believe...

Now if they want to just take 3-4 wins and finish 3rd for the 4th year in a row it's ok to use as many engines as they want! :lol:
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

LM10
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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I actually believe that the importance of getting through a season on 3 PUs is being exaggerated. Planning to make it with 4 would mean a grid penalty in just one race. This would normally mean a 6th place at least for a top team on a track you can overtake on. But in addition to that you would have the luxury to push more in in races in comparison to others.

kfrantzios
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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So I get downvoted because I said that Honda should work on reliability and because I responded to Capharol. You guys are open to discussion as long as people agree with you. What a shame...

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Capharol
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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kfrantzios wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:21 pm
So I get downvoted because I said that Honda should work on reliability and because I responded to Capharol. You guys are open to discussion as long as people agree with you. What a shame...
no we are open to discussion when you talk sence and not accusing ppl right away of attitude because they disagree with your opinion and show you what the facts are or even accusing them that these facts are their narratives AND BE ON TOPIC (as aral pointed out earlier)....

so please back to topic
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

kfrantzios
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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Capharol wrote:
kfrantzios wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:21 pm
So I get downvoted because I said that Honda should work on reliability and because I responded to Capharol. You guys are open to discussion as long as people agree with you. What a shame...
no we are open to discussion when you talk sence and not accusing ppl right away of attitude because they disagree with your opinion and show you what the facts are
Oh cmon you were the first one to say that we are trying to blame Honda. I just said Honda should work on reliability. Something that is a given.

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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:11 pm
Wouter wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:14 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:16 pm
I would say 2019 was more like "get more HP at any cost" for Honda! So now that at least in race trim they are almost there with Mercedes and Ferrari...they can look after reliability in the winter!
So to sum it all up i think RB16 will be...get the same downforce with lower drag for Red Bull...get the same horsepower
with better reliability for Honda! At least for the start of the year...
Why look after reliability in the winter?? #-o Read the post of @Capharol please.

From a large interview with Max I posted this morning in the RBR team Topic:
And what do you expect next year from Red Bull’s engine partner, Honda?

“More power! The reliability has been really good this year, we’ve never retired because of a problem from their side. So for them, I think this season has been a breakthrough. Of course we had some victories already; they were really happy with that, I think it was a big boost for the whole company, and they’re very motivated. I think we’re on the right path, and when you see the engine power compared to Mercedes and Renault, we’re very close to Mercedes now,
so that’s of course very promising for next year.
Because they used 5 engines (TR even used 7) to get through the season maybe?? They didn't have a DNF because of engine issues but they didn't use an engine for 7 races to see if that would have happened!

Mercedes and Ferrari used just 3 or 4 engines depending on the driver! And in 2020 we have 22 races! If you want to win in a season long campaign against Mercedes you have to minimize engine penalties i believe...

Now if they want to just take 3-4 wins and finish 3rd for the 4th year in a row it's ok to use as many engines as they want! :lol:
Bottas engine went pop during a race, so maybe Honda pushes Mercedes into taking a 4th power unit or risk being overtaken.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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Wouter
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:11 pm
Wouter wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:14 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:16 pm
I would say 2019 was more like "get more HP at any cost" for Honda! So now that at least in race trim they are almost there with Mercedes and Ferrari...they can look after reliability in the winter!
So to sum it all up i think RB16 will be...get the same downforce with lower drag for Red Bull...get the same horsepower
with better reliability for Honda! At least for the start of the year...
.
Why look after reliability in the winter?? #-o Read the post of @Capharol please.

From a large interview with Max I posted this morning in the RBR team Topic:
And what do you expect next year from Red Bull’s engine partner, Honda?
“More power! The reliability has been really good this year, we’ve never retired because of a problem from their side.
.
Because they used 5 engines (TR even used 7) to get through the season maybe?? They didn't have a DNF because of engine issues but they didn't use an engine for 7 races to see if that would have happened!
Maybe you could read my post and answer in another topic, where it belongs.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921&p=878699#p878699

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HPD
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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kfrantzios wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:21 pm
So I get downvoted because I said that Honda should work on reliability and because I responded to Capharol. You guys are open to discussion as long as people agree with you. What a shame...
Hi @kfrantzios
I think there is a lot of confusion here now. Let's not fight.
There is one very important thing that people forget.

Remember that Red Bull Honda before starting the season, decided to use 5 PU for the year 2019. (you can search online)
The reason: an aggressive development of Honda. Introduce evolutions as quickly as possible.

Honda is not free from reliability problems, but they were very good just like Mercedes.

Why do you blame Honda for using 5 pu?
If that was the plan from the beginning. I do not understand your anger, I do not understand why you talk about 3 PU if that was never in the development plan of RB Honda.

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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HPD wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:37 am
kfrantzios wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:21 pm
So I get downvoted because I said that Honda should work on reliability and because I responded to Capharol. You guys are open to discussion as long as people agree with you. What a shame...
Hi @kfrantzios
I think there is a lot of confusion here now. Let's not fight.
There is one very important thing that people forget.

Remember that Red Bull Honda before starting the season, decided to use 5 PU for the year 2019. (you can search online)
The reason: an aggressive development of Honda. Introduce evolutions as quickly as possible.

Honda is not free from reliability problems, but they were very good just like Mercedes.

Why do you blame Honda for using 5 pu?
If that was the plan from the beginning. I do not understand your anger, I do not understand why you talk about 3 PU if that was never in the development plan of RB Honda.
Saying your opinion shouldn't get you downvoted!

He doesn't "blame" Honda or display "anger" against them ( :lol: ) nor do i or anyone who claims the same things about Honda! We are just saying that in order to mount a successful attack on Mercedes and Ferrari in 2020, they have to make their engines last about 7 races!

Using the term "unreliability" when talking about Honda's 2019 campaign truly is wrong since they never had on track failures! But using more engines throughout the season it's only logical to make someone believe that they didn't have the reliability needed to get through the 7 races!

As i said above 2019 was a development year for Red Bull Honda so it doesn't take me by surprise that they used 5 engines as they pointed out themselves from the start of the season! But the question is: can they last more?? We don't know...only THEY know!

Back to our topic now...i expect RB16 to look a lot like RB15...nothing totally new just an evolution to an already fairly good car! I believe their task will be to produce more efficient downforce (it always is i know) since Ferrari showed what a big straightline advantage can mean for your competitors in some difficult to pass tracks! And i think lower drag played a bigger role than engine power there! Also getting their tires always in the right window will be another hugely important task specially since tires will remain the same as in 2019!!
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

kfrantzios
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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HPD wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:37 am
kfrantzios wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:21 pm
So I get downvoted because I said that Honda should work on reliability and because I responded to Capharol. You guys are open to discussion as long as people agree with you. What a shame...
Hi @kfrantzios
I think there is a lot of confusion here now. Let's not fight.
There is one very important thing that people forget.

Remember that Red Bull Honda before starting the season, decided to use 5 PU for the year 2019. (you can search online)
The reason: an aggressive development of Honda. Introduce evolutions as quickly as possible.

Honda is not free from reliability problems, but they were very good just like Mercedes.

Why do you blame Honda for using 5 pu?
If that was the plan from the beginning. I do not understand your anger, I do not understand why you talk about 3 PU if that was never in the development plan of RB Honda.
Hi to you too.
I have no intention to fight with anyone. Its just that some people are very irritable.
What was my original post? "We should not forget about reliability too. Honda engines haven't lasted 7 races yet." (nothing angry about it)
I understant the aggresive development idea. It is the way to go for Honda. The improvement over previous years is impressive. I dont blame Honda for using 5 PUs. That was planned. I just said that the engines have not lasted 7 races yet (that is a fact) as the requlations require. The goal is to fight for the championship. Can Red Bull do that using 5 engines instead of 3? If yes then by all means. That would prove how stupid these regulations are.

@AMG.Tzan
The downvote issue has been corrected after my report to the moderators. It was clearly in breach of forum rules. Plus it shows who got "angry". Some people thing they can bully others. Think again.
Edit: and then I get downvoted again! Some people are so petty.

I believe RB16 will have better engine packaging, maybe a change of concept in the front wing, and much more complexity in aero appendices