2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Juzh
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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maguetox wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:28 pm
Wouter wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:29 pm
etusch wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:55 pm
Do you know what is vtc ?



That must be a typo from Motorsport, because they also say VTC on other Motorsport sites.
VTT is used on other sites.
What VTT means? Virtual Tract Testing?
Probably some sort of rolling road able to reproduce various track scenarios in a static, controlled environment.

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etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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hansdegit wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:10 pm
I found this:

"Und bei Red Bull in der Fabrik steht der Superprüfstand VTC Tag und Nacht bereit. Darauf kann das komplette Auto mit Motor virtuell auf jeder Rennstrecke dieser Welt fahren. Der Prüfstand ist direkt mit dem Simulator verbunden."
"And at Red Bull in the factory, the VTC super test stand is available day and night. The entire car and motor can then drive virtually on any race track in the world. The test stand is directly connected to the simulator."
It is interesting. How they can simulate all tracks and especially turns ?
Whatever, it is good that they will know better about car and engine before they are on the track.
Last edited by etusch on Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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It's really interesting how interlinked development is. The VTT is fed data from the actual racing car on track, which then feeds the simulator model, which leads to chassis developments, which again feed the VTT. The simulator model is used in the 'driver in the loop' simulator, which trains the racing driver, which again feeds into and helps develop the simulation model, which is tied up in the previously mentioned loop.

That cycle is limited by the teams processing powers. It's going to be really interesting given how computation is now taking another big step forward in the near future. The large chip makers(only 2 consumer grade silicon chip manufacturers on earth) are now perfecting their 7nm process nodes for consumer grade hardware. This is half the size of current conventional process nodes (14nm). Transistor density and computational power is going to keep increasing, to the point the current teraflop limits will seem downright draconian based on the parallel processing revolution that's about to take place.
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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So this VTT, theres a driver in the sim whos inputs are fed to a physical chassis in another room/building with motors spinning up the hubs, while the engine and gearbox are in another area also being controlled in real time by the simulator?

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godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Not quite. I don't think there's any remote play thing going on. That would be pretty neat, if the simulator was driving and receiving inputs from the VTT in real time.
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izzy
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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in https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/testing-f ... the-season video, there is an engine in it, in 2017

I'm sure I've seen before that a simulator can drive an engine dyno, which must be quite simple. Then last year Ferrari had to fly Gio back from China to Italy to drive their simulator so that, back in China, they could do the real car setup! Awesomely insane. And now, 2 years later and with them all spending on infrastructure before the cost cap kicks in, what must they be getting up to ???

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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The final word 🗣
Christian looks back at the season and forward to next year .

Honeymoon with Honda

It’s no secret that in recent seasons the relationship between Renault and Red Bull deteriorated, so it’s vindicating that Honda have made good on their promises. “This is the first year for a long time where what was promised has been delivered. It’s a different type of partnership, it’s a true partnership and you can see what it means to Honda when they get a result: the emotion, the pride, the satisfaction throughout the whole business” added Christian.

2020 vision

"We need to come out of the blocks competitively next year, Mercedes are still the benchmark going into next year so we need to try and push them from the first race in order to take the challenge to them. There is a real buzz and anticipation in the factory at the moment, so we need to capitalise on that and build on the positive momentum from 2019.”
https://redbullracing.redbull.com/artic ... orner-2019

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HPD
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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The VTT is the Virtual Test Track, right?
I always thought that the VTT worked with a Simulator + Test Bench.
We know that RB and Honda are a couple of minutes away in Milton Keynes.
Won't they use the VTT at the RB factory connected to the Honda test bench? It seems to me something quite normal and easy to do.
Image

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etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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HPD wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:07 pm
The VTT is the Virtual Test Track, right?
I always thought that the VTT worked with a Simulator + Test Bench.
We know that RB and Honda are a couple of minutes away in Milton Keynes.
Won't they use the VTT at the RB factory connected to the Honda test bench? It seems to me something quite normal and easy to do.
https://i.ibb.co/tHNFvVp/simulador.png
I think engine must be installed to the mule car, gearbox and wheels which allow to simulate loads on pu, to be able to said that "we can test it with 330 kph. Otherwise it makes nonesense.

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HPD
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:22 pm
HPD wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:07 pm
The VTT is the Virtual Test Track, right?
I always thought that the VTT worked with a Simulator + Test Bench.
We know that RB and Honda are a couple of minutes away in Milton Keynes.
Won't they use the VTT at the RB factory connected to the Honda test bench? It seems to me something quite normal and easy to do.
https://i.ibb.co/tHNFvVp/simulador.png
I think engine must be installed to the mule car, gearbox and wheels which allow to simulate loads on pu, to be able to said that "we can test it with 330 kph. Otherwise it makes nonesense.
True.

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etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I think they get new pu 2 weeks before the tests and make whole package tests on the vtt or vtc (or what it is ) for settings and mapping. Maybe they will keep doing that before every race to be more prepared. If it work they manage pu milage better

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Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:13 pm
It's really interesting how interlinked development is. The VTT is fed data from the actual racing car on track, which then feeds the simulator model, which leads to chassis developments, which again feed the VTT. The simulator model is used in the 'driver in the loop' simulator, which trains the racing driver, which again feeds into and helps develop the simulation model, which is tied up in the previously mentioned loop.

That cycle is limited by the teams processing powers. It's going to be really interesting given how computation is now taking another big step forward in the near future. The large chip makers(only 2 consumer grade silicon chip manufacturers on earth) are now perfecting their 7nm process nodes for consumer grade hardware. This is half the size of current conventional process nodes (14nm). Transistor density and computational power is going to keep increasing, to the point the current teraflop limits will seem downright draconian based on the parallel processing revolution that's about to take place.
Only AMD has perfected 7nm. Intel is stuck at "barely" 10nm. Only Qualcomm has 7nm outside AMD, and it's not fully scalable yet. Actually, it's why those 2 anchor my stock portfolio..😏😏

When you can stick 4 of these in a single rack server, you can quickly reach crazy horsepower for simulation.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E1681911358 ... t0QAvD_BwE

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rscsr
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Zynerji wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:54 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:13 pm
It's really interesting how interlinked development is. The VTT is fed data from the actual racing car on track, which then feeds the simulator model, which leads to chassis developments, which again feed the VTT. The simulator model is used in the 'driver in the loop' simulator, which trains the racing driver, which again feeds into and helps develop the simulation model, which is tied up in the previously mentioned loop.

That cycle is limited by the teams processing powers. It's going to be really interesting given how computation is now taking another big step forward in the near future. The large chip makers(only 2 consumer grade silicon chip manufacturers on earth) are now perfecting their 7nm process nodes for consumer grade hardware. This is half the size of current conventional process nodes (14nm). Transistor density and computational power is going to keep increasing, to the point the current teraflop limits will seem downright draconian based on the parallel processing revolution that's about to take place.
Only AMD has perfected 7nm. Intel is stuck at "barely" 10nm. Only Qualcomm has 7nm outside AMD, and it's not fully scalable yet. Actually, it's why those 2 anchor my stock portfolio..😏😏

When you can stick 4 of these in a single rack server, you can quickly reach crazy horsepower for simulation.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E1681911358 ... t0QAvD_BwE
AMD doesn't have a fab. TSMC is developing the manufacturing, i.e. the 7nm process. And they are producing the chips for AMD, Apple, Nvidia, ... . Qualcomm chips are produced at Samsung foundries (in 7nm) nowadays. And Intel doesn't really have anything high performance on 10nm yet. And their 10nm on mobile has a pretty big frequency problem anyway.

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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Surely having the drivetrain hooked up to a dyno can simulate load, at least in terms of acceleration, on the engine/gearbox/axles no problem? Simulating bumps and pitch/roll/yaw would be a whole other kettle of fish though.

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ispano6
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Zynerji wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:54 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:13 pm
It's really interesting how interlinked development is. The VTT is fed data from the actual racing car on track, which then feeds the simulator model, which leads to chassis developments, which again feed the VTT. The simulator model is used in the 'driver in the loop' simulator, which trains the racing driver, which again feeds into and helps develop the simulation model, which is tied up in the previously mentioned loop.

That cycle is limited by the teams processing powers. It's going to be really interesting given how computation is now taking another big step forward in the near future. The large chip makers(only 2 consumer grade silicon chip manufacturers on earth) are now perfecting their 7nm process nodes for consumer grade hardware. This is half the size of current conventional process nodes (14nm). Transistor density and computational power is going to keep increasing, to the point the current teraflop limits will seem downright draconian based on the parallel processing revolution that's about to take place.
Only AMD has perfected 7nm. Intel is stuck at "barely" 10nm. Only Qualcomm has 7nm outside AMD, and it's not fully scalable yet. Actually, it's why those 2 anchor my stock portfolio..😏😏

When you can stick 4 of these in a single rack server, you can quickly reach crazy horsepower for simulation.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E1681911358 ... t0QAvD_BwE
You forgot to mention Nvidia has announced a 7nm and they already are leaders in AI distributed computation. Would be great to see Nvidia involvement.