General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
f1motta
f1motta
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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During the weekend I was able to watch NHK documentary about Honda's first win in hybrid era. It's almost two hours long and there is a lot of great stories...

- Honda is conducting its own research on fuel and ExxonMobil only produces it,

- Before Austrian GP Honda specialists have suggested Red Bull engineers to change the configuration of the front suspension - to improve airflow in the sidepods (they saw some problems during French GP - hot race). That's why Max could use (first time during the season) "engine 11 mode 5" and win the race (top level Honda's figure gave the race team permission to take that risk) - Mercedes & Ferrari both suffered from engine overheating,

- HondaJet engineers did an amazing job to save Honda's racing program. Before 2018 they found a way to stabilize the shaft connecting the turbine with the compressor - it was Honda's main problem (during McLaren era) after they changed the size of turbine and compressor (in SizeZero concept MGU-H system was just too small and couldn't generate as much energy as other PUs). HondaJet engineers were able to solve this problem in the first attempt. The funny thing is no one in the group believed that HondaJet could have any impact on the project.

- In 2018 HondaJet engineers designed new shape of blades for turbine and compressor - the target was to keep the power level and generate more energy by MGU-H even in lower flow conditions. This changes were introduced in 2019 engine and it was a good step forward,

- 2018 Honda & Red Bull (via. Toro Rosso) used to build mutual trust and develop communication methods - Franz Tost did an amazing job there,

- In 2019 both Red Bull and Toro Rosso car were designed around Honda engine and with Honda's engineers input,

- Honda has invested a lot of money in buying new production tools - aluminium engine parts are no longer made by casting. Now they use advanced machine tools,

- All engines are produced in Sakura but their tuning (maps) is carried out at a Honda base in the UK.

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Wouter
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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f1motta wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:57 pm
During the weekend I was able to watch NHK documentary about Honda's first win in hybrid era. It's almost two hours long and there is a lot of great stories...
Thank you very much @f1motta.

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izzy
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Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 9:28 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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f1motta wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:57 pm
- HondaJet engineers did an amazing job to save Honda's racing program. Before 2018 they found a way to stabilize the shaft connecting the turbine with the compressor - it was Honda's main problem (during McLaren era) after they changed the size of turbine and compressor (in SizeZero concept MGU-H system was just too small and couldn't generate as much energy as other PUs). HondaJet engineers were able to solve this problem in the first attempt. The funny thing is no one in the group believed that HondaJet could have any impact on the project.

- In 2018 HondaJet engineers designed new shape of blades for turbine and compressor - the target was to keep the power level and generate more energy by MGU-H even in lower flow conditions. This changes were introduced in 2019 engine and it was a good step forward,
- Honda has invested a lot of money in buying new production tools - aluminium engine parts are no longer made by casting. Now they use advanced machine tools,

- All engines are produced in Sakura but their tuning (maps) is carried out at a Honda base in the UK.
it's very cool that F1 is so extreme and difficult that any one department can't do it to the top level however expert they may be. And also the investment means Honda surely must be staying in F1. And if they're not casting then they must be doing Additive and that must be an explosive area of development just like Ferrari are supposed to be doing and presumably HPP too

Bill
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The funny thing is no one in the group believed that HondaJet could have any impact on the project

That's not what Yasuake said. He said Honda engineers were not keen to use Honda jet because they saw that as undermining them by nature engineers has ego. Ferrari uses Honeywell an aerospace company in the USA , force India had used Airbus in the past so these collaborations are common in f1 because the technology is complementary ceramic brakes and carbon has origin from aerospace.

skoop
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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f1motta wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:57 pm
During the weekend I was able to watch NHK documentary about Honda's first win in hybrid era. It's almost two hours long and there is a lot of great stories...

[...]
Sorry, this might be a stupid question: Could you please tell me where I can find this documentary?

Thanks a lot!

Helix
Helix
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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skoop wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:55 pm
f1motta wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:57 pm
During the weekend I was able to watch NHK documentary about Honda's first win in hybrid era. It's almost two hours long and there is a lot of great stories...

[...]
Sorry, this might be a stupid question: Could you please tell me where I can find this documentary?

Thanks a lot!
https://www4.nhk.or.jp/bs1sp/x/2020-01- ... 4/2393183/
But I could not see it because of the geographical restrictions.

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Capharol
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Helix wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:56 pm
skoop wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:55 pm
f1motta wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:57 pm
During the weekend I was able to watch NHK documentary about Honda's first win in hybrid era. It's almost two hours long and there is a lot of great stories...

[...]
Sorry, this might be a stupid question: Could you please tell me where I can find this documentary?

Thanks a lot!
https://www4.nhk.or.jp/bs1sp/x/2020-01- ... 4/2393183/
But I could not see it because of the geographical restrictions.
use VPN
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

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etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Wouter
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I think this belongs here too.
Credits to @Seense and @Bacodraak.

Newyears documentary Honda part I and II.




ispano6
ispano6
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Wouter wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:52 pm
I think this belongs here too.
Credits to @Seense and @Bacodraak.

Newyears documentary Honda part I and II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8velDo-hcY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ecdu4SgrTA
Both parts that are uploaded to youtube are missing sections that were caught by Copyright claims by F1. I know because I tried uploading the full version a few weeks ago and it was blocked.
I've copied the NHK special from a rental DVD of the full un-edited version of the documentary. The audio is slightly skippy due to the poor DVD recording. I removed the link for now but if you want the link PM me.


Unfortunately, it is only in Japanese and with no subtitles, so if you have a Japanese friend who can help you translate it properly then I suggest you watch it with them. If you're Japanese, then you can get all the missing parts that the Japanese commentors in the youtube videos have complained about how some clips seem to be put together piece-meal. This makes sense as the video was cut and probably audio was overlapped on still frames to avoid the copyright claims.

Also, to put to rest the discussion about bad translations, the English auto-translated subtitles on Youtube are pretty bad. Even some of the summary by F1motta and some other's are misquoting what was said in the documentary. Someone may find it is trivial where as I find that there is much lost in translation and some of the written translations here make generalizations without important details. Just don't quote this documentary's auto-translation as anything hard-fact unless you've had a proper translation done by a native speaker.

I will say that the most important details of this documentary come from the 4 individuals who were asked to help from the various departments. I'll post their names and their contributions later on when I get time.
Last edited by ispano6 on Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:18 am, edited 3 times in total.

ispano6
ispano6
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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izzy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:20 pm
f1motta wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:57 pm
- HondaJet engineers did an amazing job to save Honda's racing program. Before 2018 they found a way to stabilize the shaft connecting the turbine with the compressor - it was Honda's main problem (during McLaren era) after they changed the size of turbine and compressor (in SizeZero concept MGU-H system was just too small and couldn't generate as much energy as other PUs). HondaJet engineers were able to solve this problem in the first attempt. The funny thing is no one in the group believed that HondaJet could have any impact on the project.

- In 2018 HondaJet engineers designed new shape of blades for turbine and compressor - the target was to keep the power level and generate more energy by MGU-H even in lower flow conditions. This changes were introduced in 2019 engine and it was a good step forward,
- Honda has invested a lot of money in buying new production tools - aluminium engine parts are no longer made by casting. Now they use advanced machine tools,

- All engines are produced in Sakura but their tuning (maps) is carried out at a Honda base in the UK.
it's very cool that F1 is so extreme and difficult that any one department can't do it to the top level however expert they may be. And also the investment means Honda surely must be staying in F1. And if they're not casting then they must be doing Additive and that must be an explosive area of development just like Ferrari are supposed to be doing and presumably HPP too
In the documentary it was called out that the parts were CNC machined instead of cast. Additive printing was not mentioned.

ispano6
ispano6
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Bill wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:35 am
The funny thing is no one in the group believed that HondaJet could have any impact on the project

That's not what Yasuake said. He said Honda engineers were not keen to use Honda jet because they saw that as undermining them by nature engineers has ego. Ferrari uses Honeywell an aerospace company in the USA , force India had used Airbus in the past so these collaborations are common in f1 because the technology is complementary ceramic brakes and carbon has origin from aerospace.
Not true, he did not say this. He was surprised that the Aero division was able to solve it on the first try. He never mentions that he did not want to consult Honda jet. He simply said he was surprised to be amazed by Honda despite being with the company for some time. In fact, after 2018 Australia engine failure he reached out to Honda Jet department and they immediately questioned the F1 team how it is that the MGUH shaft even rotated.

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Wouter
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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ispano6 wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:56 am
Wouter wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:52 pm
I think this belongs here too.
Credits to @Seense and @Bacodraak.

Newyears documentary Honda part I and II.
.
Both parts that are uploaded to youtube are missing sections that were caught by Copyright claims by F1. I know because I tried uploading the full version a few weeks ago and it was blocked.

============

I will say that the most important details of this documentary come from the 4 individuals who were asked to help from the various departments. I'll post their names and their contributions later on when I get time.

Thank you for this information @Ispano6. The video's are now completely gone.
I am looking forward to your post.

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izzy
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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ispano6 wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:59 am
In the documentary it was called out that the parts were CNC machined instead of cast. Additive printing was not mentioned.
oh, so do they start with a huge solid billet every time? anyway I expect they are AM'ing as well, and hybrid, and i hope they are, secretly, otherwise they're going to get left behind. But really it's such a huge growth area i'm sure they must be into it. All the signs are Honda are on the pace now

nzjrs
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izzy wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:05 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:59 am
In the documentary it was called out that the parts were CNC machined instead of cast. Additive printing was not mentioned.
oh, so do they start with a huge solid billet every time? anyway I expect they are AM'ing as well, and hybrid, and i hope they are, secretly, otherwise they're going to get left behind. But really it's such a huge growth area i'm sure they must be into it. All the signs are Honda are on the pace now
:lol: :lol: :lol: we can summon you to any thread with only the slightest mention of additive manufacturing.