Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Presumably Cowell means that the aero team can make the bodywork tighter to reduce drag etc. Also, by making more power, more downforce can be carried by the car without diminishing top speed.
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OO7
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:58 pm
Presumably Cowell means that the aero team can make the bodywork tighter to reduce drag etc. Also, by making more power, more downforce can be carried by the car without diminishing top speed.
While I hope for both of those aspects, my focus is on the former. I'd just really like them to repackage the exhaust manifolds, so as to get rid of that bodywork bulge. Doing so would also encourage more side-pod over-cut airflow, into the under-cut/cokebottle, onto the floor and over the diffuser:
Image
Image
Last edited by OO7 on Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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OO7 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:12 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:58 pm
Presumably Cowell means that the aero team can make the bodywork tighter to reduce drag etc. Also, by making more power, more downforce can be carried by the car without diminishing top speed.
While I hope for both of those aspects, my focus is on the former. I'd just really like them to get repackage the exhaust manifolds, so as to get rid of that bodywork bulge.
I would suggest that if they could do that, they would have. There's a lot of stuff in that region and it needs space. If they make the exhaust too small/convoluted then they will undoubtedly lose power and / or reliability.

James Allison reckoned they'd both reduced drag and increased downforce with the new car.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

OO7
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:09 pm
I would suggest that if they could do that, they would have. There's a lot of stuff in that region and it needs space. If they make the exhaust too small/convoluted then they will undoubtedly lose power and / or reliability.

James Allison reckoned they'd both reduced drag and increased downforce with the new car.
I hear that Just_a_fan. I understand that it's not a simple task and may not even be possible. One can dream however. :)

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Mudflap
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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OO7 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:53 pm
Morteza wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:12 pm
Andy Cowell on 2020 engine
Andy Cowell wrote:“We have had to develop an even wider area of the PU. We have looked at every single system,” said Andy Cowell, Managing Director of Mercedes-AMG High Performance Powertrains. “We have worked on a huge array of projects, and when summed together they will hopefully help propel the car around the track quicker and give the aerodynamics team more opportunities to improve as well.
I'm interested in the bolded text particularly. :)
Any increase in compressor efficiency means a decrease in heat rejection to the charge air cooler for the same lambda - charge air cooler can be made smaller.
Any decrease in friction means less heat rejection to oil - the oil radiator can be made smaller.
Any decrease in combustion walls thermal conductivity means less heat rejected to water - the water radiator can be made smaller.

etc..

Of course all of these also translate into an increase in crank power or a decrease in power to drive in the case of the compressor.
nah pop no style

OO7
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:25 pm
Any increase in compressor efficiency means a decrease in heat rejection to the charge air cooler for the same lambda - charge air cooler can be made smaller.
Any decrease in friction means less heat rejection to oil - the oil radiator can be made smaller.
Any decrease in combustion walls thermal conductivity means less heat rejected to water - the water radiator can be made smaller.

etc..

Of course all of these also translate into an increase in crank power or a decrease in power to drive in the case of the compressor.
Allison has stated that the car features larger radiators than last year with a small weight penalty increase.

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Mudflap
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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OO7 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:29 pm
Mudflap wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:25 pm
Any increase in compressor efficiency means a decrease in heat rejection to the charge air cooler for the same lambda - charge air cooler can be made smaller.
Any decrease in friction means less heat rejection to oil - the oil radiator can be made smaller.
Any decrease in combustion walls thermal conductivity means less heat rejected to water - the water radiator can be made smaller.

etc..

Of course all of these also translate into an increase in crank power or a decrease in power to drive in the case of the compressor.
Allison has stated that the car features larger radiators than last year with a small weight penalty increase.
I was giving a generic example. Increasing the radiator area is very unlikely to help with aero :)
nah pop no style

OO7
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:46 pm
I was giving a generic example. Increasing the radiator area is very unlikely to help with aero :)
I see, thanks.

It would interesting to learn (given the larger rads of the W11) what architectural modifications were created within the PU to aid the aerodynamicists. I had a few ideas, but they may be quite far fetched.
Last edited by OO7 on Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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izzy
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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OO7 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:02 pm
It would interesting to learn (given the larger rads of the W11) what architectural modifications were created within the PU to aid the aerodynamicists. I had a few ideas, but they may be quite far fetched.
it's a contradiction isn't it, i've been assuming that the new radiators would've been even bigger without running the coolant hotter, which was quite major as apparently they're running the aluminium parts so hot they're being weakened. So it sounds like they've done the design with this in mind, presumably doing the cooling channels so that the peak temperatures aren't so far from the kind of core temperature - more channels, closer to surfaces, kind of thing

But it could also be the shape and density of the radiators perhaps, as a big open radiator (with fewer fins and tubes) will flow more air and faster, that might actually have an aero role at the back? Or less resistance at the inlet, or both. It'd be interesting to know as you say

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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He means bigger radiators as just bigger radiators! :wink:

Notice the naked side pod there are different types of radiators stacked up. The Mercedes radiators also fit partially into a special undercut in the sides of the chassis. Also remember that the upper crash structure is now out of the way, so you can easily see where the space for bigger radiators comes from. As you suggest izzy, the bigger radiators might actually be both better at cooling and more free-flowing.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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De Jokke
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Could this explain some people leaving Brixworth?

"Cowell conceded that splitting personnel between the two projects was difficult at first: “Having two highly competitive series to do engineering work on is initially a strain, because it takes a period of time to find the right people for the new series. Some of those people have transferred from the F1 team, some have been recruited from outside."
Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!

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Mudflap
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Today Brixworth have held a company wide meeting to present the new power unit.

Rumours are 20 hp up from last season and over 3 tenths quicker from just the engine (of which almost 1 tenth from the cooling inovations that allow the car to run more closed).

All their prove out engines have failed before achieving the target mileage and they are now counting on the engines returning from Barcelona at the end of the test to be used for prove out.
nah pop no style

OO7
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:34 pm
Today Brixworth have held a company wide meeting to present the new power unit.

Rumours are 20 hp up from last season and over 3 tenths quicker from just the engine (of which almost 1 tenth from the cooling inovations that allow the car to run more closed).

All their prove out engines have failed before achieving the target mileage and they are now counting on the engines returning from Barcelona at the end of the test to be used for prove out.
They're seriously pushing the limits and extending themselves, which isn't a bad thing. I really hope all their hard work pays off.

LM10
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:34 pm
Today Brixworth have held a company wide meeting to present the new power unit.

Rumours are 20 hp up from last season and over 3 tenths quicker from just the engine (of which almost 1 tenth from the cooling inovations that allow the car to run more closed).

All their prove out engines have failed before achieving the target mileage and they are now counting on the engines returning from Barcelona at the end of the test to be used for prove out.
20 hp is the biggest gain since 2014? Seems like one of the rumors must be false.

PhillipM
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I heard 10kw - albeit from another team - there's not a huge amount left on the table these days, really.