Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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AJI
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:08 am
I've also used a Peugeot 206 for off-road, even while towing 3 bikes and went through paths some people wouldn't dare with his SUV, but that does not mean it's an off road car

A Q7 is better for it's higher ground clearance, but that's all, apart from that it's a 100% road vehicle

So you're assuming off-road cars are only for 0.00001% of population? Sorry but disagree, off road fans, hunters, anyone who practice climbing or wild animals photography or studies, infrastructure maintenance, people who live or own a house on rural areas without roads... There a lots of people who need a real off road car

Sorry to say this, but the lack of usefulness you're criticizing to the Rivian IMHO is much better suited to your own Q7 than it is to Rivian. Rivian is a similar car (luxury SUV) but much more capable off-road because of the higher ground clearance, better attack angles, higher wading, better traction control (full control of each wheel independently), tank steer, higher profile tires (a must for real off-road use)...

Actually I find it a bit ironic a Q7 owner criticizing Rivian and asking if we actually need what it offers... Do you need a 5m long, 2 tons, 80k$ Q7? No, but that's what you own. Rivian is a similar car, with similar price, for similar use, but with more capabilities
You of all people know my stance on this Andres, so please don't pick a fight... I'm practically 'Mr Green' here compared to most who spout greeny philosophy but don’t actually contribute in any meaningfully way. I actually have 'money in the game' Andres, do you? That said, I'm on an F1 site, I have 3 cars and a superbike, so I'm obviously a petrol head...
Even though I've said to you privately that a PHEV would suit me perfectly because my particular solar setup and lifestyle could take good advantage of it, I don't have one because there isn't one. You have very little idea of my specific needs apart from what I've already posted, so please don't pretend you know my exact vehicular needs...
To be totally clear, an Audi SUV suits me because; I live in rural Australia, I need a good tow vehicle, I drive on unsealed roads a few times a week, I go proper off road a few times a month, the roads in Australia are shite, a heavy car full of airbags is safer, I like luxury, a Q7 drives like a real car, I'm a petrol head (even though that car is diesel), I want good fuel economy, I like German cars, etc, etc, etc...
The Rivan is a BEV, it won't work for me. Is that so hard to accept?

Re: percentage of population that go properly off-road, did you actually look up the figures? I did.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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apparently EVs are to be viable in the UK by 2032

our Mr Shapps having today declared this date for ending the availability of new petrol, diesel, and hybrid cars

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hollus
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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#Threaddone
¡Puxa Esportin!

3jawchuck
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:35 pm
apparently EVs are to be viable in the UK by 2032

our Mr Shapps having today declared this date for ending the availability of new petrol, diesel, and hybrid cars
I think that has retracted a couple of years, wasn't it supposed to be 2040? Anyway, at least the UK is small enough with very few "middle of nowhere" parts and only a slight aversion to nuclear power and renewables, it is a perfect place for daily driver EVs.

On a different note, what ever happened to that Nikola battery technology? Weren't they supposed to be doing something "game changing" (hate that term) early this year? All I have heard about is more hydrogen stuff.

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strad
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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90% of people never take their four wheel drive vehicles off paved roads. I don't think those people will dream of taking their $70,000 Rivian where it might get scratched or dented. :wink:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Brake Horse Power
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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3jawchuck wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:14 pm
Tommy Cookers wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:35 pm
apparently EVs are to be viable in the UK by 2032

our Mr Shapps having today declared this date for ending the availability of new petrol, diesel, and hybrid cars
I think that has retracted a couple of years, wasn't it supposed to be 2040? Anyway, at least the UK is small enough with very few "middle of nowhere" parts and only a slight aversion to nuclear power and renewables, it is a perfect place for daily driver EVs.

On a different note, what ever happened to that Nikola battery technology? Weren't they supposed to be doing something "game changing" (hate that term) early this year? All I have heard about is more hydrogen stuff.
They are working on it with a bunch of scientists and will reveal details in September at their annual party

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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strad wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:24 pm
90% of people never take their four wheel drive vehicles off paved roads. I don't think those people will dream of taking their $70,000 Rivian where it might get scratched or dented. :wink:
Yeah, for that it´s much better a $120,000 Porsche Cayene, or a $90,000 Mercedes GLS or BMW X6 or Audi Q7 or Volvo X90 or VW Toureg or Jaguar F-Pace... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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AJI wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:44 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:08 am
I've also used a Peugeot 206 for off-road, even while towing 3 bikes and went through paths some people wouldn't dare with his SUV, but that does not mean it's an off road car

A Q7 is better for it's higher ground clearance, but that's all, apart from that it's a 100% road vehicle

So you're assuming off-road cars are only for 0.00001% of population? Sorry but disagree, off road fans, hunters, anyone who practice climbing or wild animals photography or studies, infrastructure maintenance, people who live or own a house on rural areas without roads... There a lots of people who need a real off road car

Sorry to say this, but the lack of usefulness you're criticizing to the Rivian IMHO is much better suited to your own Q7 than it is to Rivian. Rivian is a similar car (luxury SUV) but much more capable off-road because of the higher ground clearance, better attack angles, higher wading, better traction control (full control of each wheel independently), tank steer, higher profile tires (a must for real off-road use)...

Actually I find it a bit ironic a Q7 owner criticizing Rivian and asking if we actually need what it offers... Do you need a 5m long, 2 tons, 80k$ Q7? No, but that's what you own. Rivian is a similar car, with similar price, for similar use, but with more capabilities
You of all people know my stance on this Andres, so please don't pick a fight... I'm practically 'Mr Green' here compared to most who spout greeny philosophy but don’t actually contribute in any meaningfully way. I actually have 'money in the game' Andres, do you? That said, I'm on an F1 site, I have 3 cars and a superbike, so I'm obviously a petrol head...
Even though I've said to you privately that a PHEV would suit me perfectly because my particular solar setup and lifestyle could take good advantage of it, I don't have one because there isn't one. You have very little idea of my specific needs apart from what I've already posted, so please don't pretend you know my exact vehicular needs...
To be totally clear, an Audi SUV suits me because; I live in rural Australia, I need a good tow vehicle, I drive on unsealed roads a few times a week, I go proper off road a few times a month, the roads in Australia are shite, a heavy car full of airbags is safer, I like luxury, a Q7 drives like a real car, I'm a petrol head (even though that car is diesel), I want good fuel economy, I like German cars, etc, etc, etc...
The Rivan is a BEV, it won't work for me. Is that so hard to accept?

Re: percentage of population that go properly off-road, did you actually look up the figures? I did.
It´s not a fight Aji, it´s just that you shocked me when saying Rivian offers things none wants, specially when you said you own a Q7. Rivian offers the same as Audi, exactly the same, a luxury SUV with limited off-road capabilities, but Rivian offers more capabilities, so sincerely, I can´t understand your critizism to Rivian

I could from someone with same point of view about luxury SUVs as myself, but not from someone who owns exactly that kind of car :shock:

What´s the reason you like your Q7 but criticize Rivian? What do you find so different apart from a lower price with more capabilities? Ok range, but that´s not a reason to criticize Rivian, they´ve achieved the longest range for an EV out there, so there must be something else I´m missing, and I´m trying to understand Aji

AJI
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:02 am

It´s not a fight Aji, it´s just that you shocked me when saying Rivian offers things none wants, specially when you said you own a Q7. Rivian offers the same as Audi, exactly the same, a luxury SUV with limited off-road capabilities, but Rivian offers more capabilities, so sincerely, I can´t understand your critizism to Rivian

I could from someone with same point of view about luxury SUVs as myself, but not from someone who owns exactly that kind of car :shock:

What´s the reason you like your Q7 but criticize Rivian? What do you find so different apart from a lower price with more capabilities? Ok range, but that´s not a reason to criticize Rivian, they´ve achieved the longest range for an EV out there, so there must be something else I´m missing, and I´m trying to understand Aji
Andres, at no stage have I specifically criticised Rivan, or any manufacturer for that matter. I'm simply suggesting that BEV 'truck' manufacturers (in the American sense of the term) tend to use dick-measuring marketing campaigns for non-existent vehicles by promoting 'tank turn' and 'supercar acceleration', all the while glossing over the real issue, the bogey-man of BEVs, charge time and charging infrastructure.
You know I want a PHEV because, right now with current battery tech, it would suit me better. I don’t need ‘tank turn’ and I don’t need ‘supercar acceleration’, but what I do like is the ability to fuel-up in a very short amount of time. I wish you could just accept that and move on...

Brake Horse Power
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Chill out Andres :lol: , he is on the green side as well. Your point is well taken 😉

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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AJI wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:16 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:02 am

It´s not a fight Aji, it´s just that you shocked me when saying Rivian offers things none wants, specially when you said you own a Q7. Rivian offers the same as Audi, exactly the same, a luxury SUV with limited off-road capabilities, but Rivian offers more capabilities, so sincerely, I can´t understand your critizism to Rivian

I could from someone with same point of view about luxury SUVs as myself, but not from someone who owns exactly that kind of car :shock:

What´s the reason you like your Q7 but criticize Rivian? What do you find so different apart from a lower price with more capabilities? Ok range, but that´s not a reason to criticize Rivian, they´ve achieved the longest range for an EV out there, so there must be something else I´m missing, and I´m trying to understand Aji
Andres, at no stage have I specifically criticised Rivan, or any manufacturer for that matter. I'm simply suggesting that BEV 'truck' manufacturers (in the American sense of the term) tend to use dick-measuring marketing campaigns for non-existent vehicles
Ok probably I over reacted, sorry, it was early in the morning here and I was half asleep :oops:


Mental note: wait until I finish my coffe before posting

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strad
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Yeah, for that it´s much better a $120,000 Porsche Cayene, or a $90,000 Mercedes GLS or BMW X6 or Audi Q7 or Volvo X90 or VW Toureg or Jaguar F-Pace
Not sure what you mean Andres. Those people aren't taking those cars into the rough either.
Even cheaper Chevys and Fords don't get used off road often or at all.
The paying for capabilities that are never used is a common joke in the U.S..
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

AJI
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:32 pm
AJI wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:16 am
Ok probably I over reacted, sorry, it was early in the morning here and I was half asleep :oops:


Mental note: wait until I finish my coffe before posting
No probs. :wink:

AJI
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Though I'm all fine with people being as "green" as we can, right now I just can't see any BEV in my near future. And that sucks, because one of our vehicles is primarily a short range commuter car.

And when I look at the entire picture, which includes the footprint required to manufacture the new vehicle and then fuel it, it would take many, many, many years before the new BEV actually became the "greener" vehicle as compared to continuing to operate the old commuter car it could replace. Granted the numbers change if we were to assume that the owner was comparing a new ICE to BEV/PHEV choices, or even used car choices. But often keeping older ICE cars balances out the higher emissions, since there aren't resources used and emissions created in the making of them. The technology is great, and making more efficient vehicles for future sales balances things out, but throwing away ICE cars to make room isn't really efficient either.

And as shown by people crunching the numbers, how clean a new BEV is also depends quite a bit on the local electricity sources. I don't mind running a new circuit to the front of the home to have charging for a BEV, but if I have to put on a rooftop of solar panels to make the BEV emissions clean on all fronts, that is another expense to consider.



As for the whole performance/power/tank turn/etc..... well personally I see those arguments just as much being applied regardless of the power sources. The vast majority of us that own cars have things we don't need in those cars, but we want them so we get them. The BEV and hybrid makers really have to offer those often not needed options because they are already available in the ICE cars and trucks.