Racing Point RP20

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
molo
molo
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Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:31 am

Re: Racing Point RP20

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The concept is the same but clearly not an exact copy. Would this be something that will help to develop their aerodynamic engineers? It's possible. Having the ability to understand last year's best car could have a big impact on their next cars development.

NAPI10
NAPI10
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:08 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

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Interesting to know, RP can buy 'DAS' from Merc :) :)

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JRindt
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

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I highly doubt that RP can simply recreate the W10 from photos AND make it work. With the tech available, it’s probably theoretically possible to recreate the car.
But, it’s a huge risk. I mean F1 aero consists of hundreds of parts — maybe even thousands — and if you miss a single small piece, It won’t work. The worst part is, you won’t even know what was missed and then you’re truly f****d. This is the reason why teams like Haas and Alpha Tauri don’t go to the extreme copy-paste method. I believe they just take the philosophy and try to make it work and this is where those small variations on their cars appear compared to the original.

The level of similarities between RP20 and W10; the close relationship between papa stroll and Toto; and the cockiness of Otmar Szafnauer (he’s predicting podiums for both his drivers before the testing has even started) leads me to believe there has been some IP sharing by Mercedes.

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Racer X
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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JRindt wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:31 pm
If you miss a single small piece, It won’t work. The worst part is, you won’t even know what was missed and then you’re truly f****d. This is the reason why teams like Haas.
Yeah this happened to Haas with their car last year they were left chasing a development path they didnt understand. Which is why this year they went with a simpler wing.

But the RPF1 team seems to have an understanding of the car so they might develop the car further then Merecedes did at least enough to understand it the car and hopefully develop some high downforce and low downforce wings for the different kinds of circuits in the season.

Otherwise they will simple be in the same window that HAAS was in where they were amazing in some tracks and terrible at others because they didnt understand the way the front wing worked and this affected them everywhere.

you cant just copy some ones homework. Because when its time to take a test... you will still fail. Makes sense to me why HAAS suffered despite having a Ferrari. But this is RPF1 im hope they dont suffer like HAAS.
RedBull Racing MAX//PEREZ

f1jcw
f1jcw
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Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:15 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

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I was in favour of customer teams and the ability to buy chassis from constructors, the FIA was promoting it and then changed their mind dropping one company in the --- that they misled.

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ispano6
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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It was announced in April last year that RP would start using the Mercedes wind tunnel for 2020 car development. That explains why the car is so close to the W10, having likely the same low rake philosophy and also their trick suspension front and back. The low rake philosophy may aid in the 2021 concept seeing that the regulations call for more of a design that would seem to encourage venturi effects "sealing" the floor to the ground.

Article below quotes Green using the MB wind tunnel since May.
https://f1i.com/news/368132-racing-poin ... clone.html

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MtthsMlw
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Location: Germany

Re: Racing Point RP20

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Image
via @genfe2

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izzy
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Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 9:28 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

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JRindt wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:31 pm
I highly doubt that RP can simply recreate the W10 from photos AND make it work. With the tech available, it’s probably theoretically possible to recreate the car.
But, it’s a huge risk. I mean F1 aero consists of hundreds of parts — maybe even thousands — and if you miss a single small piece, It won’t work. The worst part is, you won’t even know what was missed and then you’re truly f****d. This is the reason why teams like Haas and Alpha Tauri don’t go to the extreme copy-paste method. I believe they just take the philosophy and try to make it work and this is where those small variations on their cars appear compared to the original.

The level of similarities between RP20 and W10; the close relationship between papa stroll and Toto; and the cockiness of Otmar Szafnauer (he’s predicting podiums for both his drivers before the testing has even started) leads me to believe there has been some IP sharing by Mercedes.
my guess is they did it as a learning exercise. They won't be able to do it next year, so what they've done is put last year's best car in the wind tunnel and got the data. Now they can see exactly how it all worked, which is a lot better than they were able to do on their own. So it's all a masterclass in F1 aero, that they can apply for 2021 and beyond

Whether they they got some help from various tunnel techs or ex Mercedes staff, i wouldn't be surprised, but i don't see why they couldn't do it from a lot of high resolution photos, when they had so many known points already from the power unit and suspension, and enough different angles to cross-check, on top of the regulations

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Morteza
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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Image

Image
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

Mandrake
Mandrake
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 12:31 am

Re: Racing Point RP20

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JRindt wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:31 pm
I highly doubt that RP can simply recreate the W10 from photos AND make it work. With the tech available, it’s probably theoretically possible to recreate the car.
But, it’s a huge risk. I mean F1 aero consists of hundreds of parts — maybe even thousands — and if you miss a single small piece, It won’t work. The worst part is, you won’t even know what was missed and then you’re truly f****d. This is the reason why teams like Haas and Alpha Tauri don’t go to the extreme copy-paste method. I believe they just take the philosophy and try to make it work and this is where those small variations on their cars appear compared to the original.

The level of similarities between RP20 and W10; the close relationship between papa stroll and Toto; and the cockiness of Otmar Szafnauer (he’s predicting podiums for both his drivers before the testing has even started) leads me to believe there has been some IP sharing by Mercedes.
Seeing that a RBR, Merc or Ferrari with minor damage to the car is still way quicker than the midfield I'd say the approach promises enough reward to risk the risk

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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funny to see that every part of the car is sculpted and the radiators are still more or less a big rectangle, where they bent head over heals to work around.

michl420
michl420
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Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:08 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Racing Point RP20

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I don't think it's difficult to make a copy. Some of us are Looking for Hours on Pictures of a car and could make a acceptable copy. Actually I am surprised no one have done it before (I don't know something).

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ringo
236
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Racing Point RP20

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it is not dificult at the start of a new car design to copy. its only dificult if you have an existing design and want to copy a certain part and make it work on your car.
after they do the 3d scans they simply run the model in the cfd or wind tunnel to understamd and reverse engineer the car. as simple as that.
what they wont get is how the suspension works with the shape of the car and other mechanical and dymamic aspects
For Sure!!

Zynerji
Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

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ringo wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:08 pm
it is not dificult at the start of a new car design to copy. its only dificult if you have an existing design and want to copy a certain part and make it work on your car.
after they do the 3d scans they simply run the model in the cfd or wind tunnel to understamd and reverse engineer the car. as simple as that.
what they wont get is how the suspension works with the shape of the car and other mechanical and dymamic aspects
Wouldn't that data come with the purchase of suspension parts?

OO7
OO7
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:49 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

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ispano6 wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:42 pm
It was announced in April last year that RP would start using the Mercedes wind tunnel for 2020 car development. That explains why the car is so close to the W10, having likely the same low rake philosophy and also their trick suspension front and back. The low rake philosophy may aid in the 2021 concept seeing that the regulations call for more of a design that would seem to encourage venturi effects "sealing" the floor to the ground.

Article below quotes Green using the MB wind tunnel since May.
https://f1i.com/news/368132-racing-poin ... clone.html
I don't understand the relationship between Racing Point using the same wind-tunnel as Mercedes and the RP20 looking like a clone of the W10?