Braking telemetry on TV

[timbo]

I always noticed that brake pedal action on TV is really only on/off, while we can see gradual movement of the throttle.
Look at this for example
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e0RUZabvK0[/youtube]

And it is not Alonso's style or something, it looks the same for any other driver. Why is it so?
I really don't think that brakes work that way now, I also read that .pdf that compared Schumacher's driving style with Barichello's and both were careful on the braking - nothing like on/off.

[Jersey Tom]

Possible that it's just keying off a brake pressure switch that's ON/OFF rather than showing line pressure. No way they're off the brakes that abruptly.

[jamsbong]

If I'm not wrong I read somewhere that there is no power assist braking in F1 cars. As a result, the driver stomp on the brakes. The composite disc brakes actually needs temperature to work. So what happens in super slow motion is probably like this.
the Driver hits the brake and at first there is barely 1g of braking power. Then as the disc heats up (from the friction) the g loads quickly builts up to 5g.
I think he has to keep his feet straight as his whole body temporary weighs 5x pushing on the brake pedal.

I think you only need to lighten the load of the brake if you are below 150km/h because the downforce don't work below that speed. at high speed the harder you brake, the later you can do it before corner and the faster you end up.

Perhaps it is better to see a braking telemetry in a rainy condition. Thats where you really have to be gentle.

[Jersey Tom]

Even in the dry, the brakes should not just click on/off like that. They probably trail off quickly, but not instantly.

Gotta be just how they get the telemetry, from an on/off pressure switch rather than a line pressure sensor.

[Scotracer]

The throttle application is a variable (on the telemetry) but the braking is just on/off indication. I have noticed this for years; even when you can quite easily see the drivers balancing the cars on the brakes, there is no deviation in the brake input - it's always either full or nothing.

[jamsbong]

I see what you mean. I guess the braking technique is more of a driver's secret and thus not to be published? Maybe some agreed pack?

Oh well, at least you can still see the braking point before a corner.

[OriginalDaVe]

Yeah, it has always been on/off for braking, rather than the true progression of the pressure on the pedal.

Back at Suzuka in 05, when Fisichella was being overtaken by Kimi into turn 1, Fisi was only on the throttle pedal, while Raikkonen was both on the brake (fully, according to the TV) and throttle, and yet Raikkonen ended up miles ahead of Fisi by turn 2 when if the telemetry was right, he would've been miles behind.

[modbaraban]

Perhaps it is better to see a braking telemetry in a rainy condition. Thats where you really have to be gentle.

Actually not. It was always on/off this season. I'm sure I've seen proper gradual braking telemetry overlays on TV earlier though. I think it was back in 2006 or even 2005. Back when we didn't see that much of the telemetry at all, but it was a proper one.
I can't see any good reason to display it in the on/off way as it is now

[Jersey Tom]

Driver's braking technique isn't a secret pact. It's just easier to display on/off on TV.

Throttle position always goes from 0-100%. Easy to show on a bar. Brake line pressure can be just about anything.. you dont know where "100%" is going to be. Easier to mark it just as on/off.

[modbaraban]

Brake line pressure can be just about anything.. you dont know where "100%" is going to be. Easier to mark it just as on/off.

But surely teams do get that data displayed properly with all other driver inputs in real time, don't they?

[Jersey Tom]

They do, but they would get it either numerically or more likely as a time/distance plot (line a line graph). As a bar, like they show on the TV telemetry, isn't of much use.

In theory I mean you could have that TV bar max value set to some absurdly high line pressure that would take Chuck Norris to achieve, but it's probably a lot easier just to have the on/off pressure switch.

[timbo]

Driver's braking technique isn't a secret pact. It's just easier to display on/off on TV.

Throttle position always goes from 0-100%. Easy to show on a bar. Brake line pressure can be just about anything.. you dont know where "100%" is going to be. Easier to mark it just as on/off.

That sounds logical!

[Ogami musashi]

There's a possibility that telemetry is not fully accurate but in any way the braking technics in F1 are on/off. There's an amazing fact that during the transient braking (the phase were braking force is the higher) the braking power is driver limited. For a 5G brake they have to push around 120kg of pressure on the pedal so they litteraly jump on it.

The goal in F1 is to use transients that is braking overshoot (when the load transfert on the front is important), turning in overshoot (throwing the car into the corner) and throttle is the only exception now.

The reason behind that is simple: a F1 car spend less time in a given corner sequence than any other car, so you can't have too progressive technics.