FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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turbof1
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FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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We are going to centralize the discussion about the FIA conclusion regarding the 2019 Ferrari Power Unit, the controversy around it and the other teams their reaction on this.

Anything related to this will be allowed in this topic. We still encourage bringing technical aspects to the Ferrari Power Unit topic.

I'll try to move posts from other topics to here.
#AeroFrodo

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214270
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I theorised earlier in the [power unit] thread that Renault might be the most vocal about this, so I am quite surprised it’s Merc that appears to be taking the lead.

Either way, it is the right course of action [for the joint statement of the other teams].
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

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nzjrs
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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RZS10 wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:28 pm
This Turrini theory would mean that some team would have given stolen information they had straight from Ferrari to the FIA in order to prove that they're "cheating", right? They would admit that they made themselves guilty of espionage
I would need to check the exact legal and governance from F1 all the way up to the WSC (I guess), but it is not uncommon to have 'whistleblower protections' enshrined in law. The details of the existence of those protections and how they interact with other laws would be something lawyers would argue about, but the choice to use the word 'whistleblower' was certainly intentional.

(@mods: oops, our posts crossed in flight. please move this if appropriate)

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214270
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

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jumpingfish
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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214270 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:40 am
I theorised earlier in the [power unit] thread that Renault might be the most vocal about this, so I am quite surprised it’s Merc that appears to be taking the lead.

Either way, it is the right course of action [for the joint statement of the other teams].
I'm not surprised because of this:
Red Bull’s Marko revealed that, amid Ferrari’s advantage, it was Mercedes who had looked into the issue of fuel flow measurements in the greatest detail.
“Mercedes had researched in the area and we had the courage to make the official request to the FIA,” he confirmed.

kimetic
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Even Formula1.com is reporting it:
Seven Formula 1 teams have released a joint statement expressing their shock and surprise
We hereby state publicly our shared commitment to pursue full and proper disclosure in this matter, to ensure that our sport treats all competitors fairly and equally
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... DYVEz.html

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Expected to be honest!

I mean what was the FIA and Ferrari expecting the others to do?? Say...oooh so nice of you that you settled it that way! After all both Mercedes and Mclaren were the ones that got a 100M fine and an exclusion for things that even Ron Dennis himself didn't know! Ferrari knew as a team what they were doing...if they were truly cheating then this should be an exclusion from the 2019 WCC!

An exclusion for Ferrari means more money for the other teams from gaining a higher place in the WCC! So no shock here seeing all the other teams getting together on this!

The question is: Were Ferrari cheating or did they just find a loophole within the Engine Regulations to make more Horsepower?? Because if it was a loophole...then you can't blame someone for being clever! But if it was a loophole like Mercedes's oil burning thing...wouldn't they just close the loophole for next season and say...oh we've found this loophole...we'll just close it?? For FIA to release such a statement it really looks suspicious! :?
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Jip
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Been waiting for this. It's good that teams take action and trying to find out what this 'settlement' is and what Ferrari did wrong last year. Really curious to see what comes next now.

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214270
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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I suspect all that signed will have this statement on their newsites.

McLaren: https://www.mclaren.com/racing/team/sta ... cing-2020/
Williams: https://www.williamsf1.com/news/2020/03 ... -statement
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

KeiKo403
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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IF (intentionally big 'if' there) Ferrari were top nop have points deducted/exclusion from the championship, what would that mean for Alfa and Haas who also used the same PU?

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JonoNic
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Jip wrote:Been waiting for this. It's good that teams take action and trying to find out what this 'settlement' is and what Ferrari did wrong last year. Really curious to see what comes next now.
Not just a simple thing like Ferrari did something 'wrong last year' then two parties will be in trouble. Ferrari because of what they did but the bigger problem is that the FIA trying to cover it up with that statement. If the FIA understands this then there will be a big battle to protect the integrity of the FIA.
Always find the gap then use it.

caesar1
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Is there a limit to when Ferrari could be disqualified from results? Say this takes 6 months to resolve and a court finds them guilty of cheating could they still be disqualified from the previous year's results? Or is it too late under FIA rules?

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Chene_Mostert
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:56 am
Expected to be honest!

I mean what was the FIA and Ferrari expecting the others to do?? Say...oooh so nice of you that you settled it that way! After all both Mercedes and Mclaren were the ones that got a 100M fine and an exclusion for things that even Ron Dennis himself didn't know! Ferrari knew as a team what they were doing...if they were truly cheating then this should be an exclusion from the 2019 WCC!

An exclusion for Ferrari means more money for the other teams from gaining a higher place in the WCC! So no shock here seeing all the other teams getting together on this!

The question is: Were Ferrari cheating or did they just find a loophole within the Engine Regulations to make more Horsepower?? Because if it was a loophole...then you can't blame someone for being clever! But if it was a loophole like Mercedes's oil burning thing...wouldn't they just close the loophole for next season and say...oh we've found this loophole...we'll just close it?? For FIA to release such a statement it really looks suspicious! :?
If they found a "loophole", do they need to disclose it to other teams?
If they found a way of running the PU more efficiently within the confines of the regulation, do they need to disclose it to anyone outside of the FIA?
The "settlement" could just be that. We checked, they have some "clever" tech, and it all operates within the control measures put in place. The team does not want to disclose their "invention" so we came to a settlement.
"Science at its best is an open-minded method of inquiry, not a belief system." - Rupert Sheldrake

scarnegie96
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Chene_Mostert wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:13 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:56 am
Expected to be honest!

I mean what was the FIA and Ferrari expecting the others to do?? Say...oooh so nice of you that you settled it that way! After all both Mercedes and Mclaren were the ones that got a 100M fine and an exclusion for things that even Ron Dennis himself didn't know! Ferrari knew as a team what they were doing...if they were truly cheating then this should be an exclusion from the 2019 WCC!

An exclusion for Ferrari means more money for the other teams from gaining a higher place in the WCC! So no shock here seeing all the other teams getting together on this!

The question is: Were Ferrari cheating or did they just find a loophole within the Engine Regulations to make more Horsepower?? Because if it was a loophole...then you can't blame someone for being clever! But if it was a loophole like Mercedes's oil burning thing...wouldn't they just close the loophole for next season and say...oh we've found this loophole...we'll just close it?? For FIA to release such a statement it really looks suspicious! :?
If they found a "loophole", do they need to disclose it to other teams?
If they found a way of running the PU more efficiently within the confines of the regulation, do they need to disclose it to anyone outside of the FIA?
The "settlement" could just be that. We checked, they have some "clever" tech, and it all operates within the control measures put in place. The team does not want to disclose their "invention" so we came to a settlement.
Surely they would've have come out saying that the PU was fully compliant with the regulations then? Rather than a vague 'settlement'.

The fact that it was such a settlement really means to me that the FIA could not fully prove that Ferrari where breaking the rules, but weren't 100% on the legality either.

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Chene_Mostert
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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caesar1 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:13 pm
Is there a limit to when Ferrari could be disqualified from results? Say this takes 6 months to resolve and a court finds them guilty of cheating could they still be disqualified from the previous year's results? Or is it too late under FIA rules?
If they do d exceed the FF rate, and don't tamper with the flow meters during a race, then the can not be found in breach of regulation
You are over reacting.
The AMG team is just curious, they thought they were the PU masters. Why did they not lodge protest during race events?
The were hoping FIA would be feeding them info. That's why.
"Science at its best is an open-minded method of inquiry, not a belief system." - Rupert Sheldrake