No as soon as the rider lets go of the bike, the bike does it´s own steering because of the geometry of the front forks.Andres125sx wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:16 pmAlso, but they´re different effects. You´re talking about steer stability, wich is different to lean/angle stability. Both are necessary for a bike to continue rolling even without a rider onboard. Without the lean/angle stability the bike would crash to any side even if the steer is straight due to the forks angle (advance? it´s the translation from spanish, but not sure if that´s correct in english). Actually in those crashes I was talking about, the bike is leaned when the rider crash, and the bike straight up itself. Obviously the steer has no impact here, a straight steer is necessary for that to happen, but not enough
It even as you have already noted, manages to overcome whatever little gyroscopic forces there were and stand itself back up without rider input.
As i said, the bike wants to fall down, say to the left, front wheel will start to turn left which causes it to stand back up again (remember countersteering makes it turn, steering makes it stand up)
But we see many many times when these types of crashes happen, the bike is leaned over at some point but then magically steers itself straight up.Andres125sx wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:00 pmAgree, same as a vertical wheel that is spinning will stay spinning vertically without any outside force acting on it, wich is exactly the case we´re talking about with a motorcycle staying vertical by itself and needed some extra force to lean it into a corner
Now we´ve already established that a spinning wheel without outside interaction can´t change it´s angle, it wants to spin in whatever direction it is spinning in.
So when the bike steers itself straight like we see on those shots what happens? The bike itself through the geometry steers itself which means unlike countersteering which makes a bike lean it will do the opposite and stop any leaning and stay straight.
So for 23 years of motorcycling only now do you discover that in order to turn a motorcycle you actually countersteer.Andres125sx wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:00 pmNot here, at least in 1997 wich is when I got my motorcycle driving license
You are one lucky dude to be alive
You could have had a situation where you had to make a super fast direction change and all you would have done is try to shift weight rather then countersteer hard.
And i wonder to myself what type of videos are these you are talking about?Andres125sx wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:00 pmand I´ve watched dozens of videos about riding techniques along the years...
90 degrees, 40 degrees, 34,45456 degrees it does not matter.Andres125sx wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:00 pm90 degrees is unreal. What about 40 degrees? Fair question, you´ve agreed tilting the bike will be more difficult due to the gyroscopic effect wich is obvious for anyone who has ever riden a bike. But you continue denying it will straight up itself. I have always assumed it will, but you´re managing to make me doubt, not seriously but it´s a start
Forget about the motorycle, lets just use the experiment in the video you provided.
A simple wheel being spun really fast.
A wheel that is spinning will want to spin in whatever direction you put it.
This is why carbon wheels are so lauded, they make the bike easier in transitions from left to right.
Same with counter-rotating shaft, while yes it helps keep the front wheel down a little bit it also cancels some of the gyroscopic effects produced by the wheels. Again making the bike easier to flick from side to side.