FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

[dans79]

https://www.grandprix.com/news/ferrari- ... marko.html

Red Bull official Dr Helmut Marko told the Munchner Merkur newspaper that the situation is no less than a scandal.

"The whole thing has now taken on FIFA proportions," he said, referring to the world football association's reported corruption some years ago.

"Only one letter is missing between the FIA and FIFA," Marko charged. "In any other association, this would be political suicide by Jean Todt.

"The FIA has discredited a sport in which we invest three-digit million sums of euros each year."

[gshevlin]

Folks, complex technical matters like F1 technical regulations, and their interpretation, are not black and white. Anybody claiming that Ferrari is unequivocally guilty (but getting away with it) or totally innocent has either inadvertently or deliberately been sniffing from a bullshit inhaler.
Clearly evidence existed to trigger investigation and serious negotiation.
I can only repeat what I wrote in an earlier posting. This is a sporting process, not a legal process. The FIA does not have to adhere to conventional standards of legal proof. They sort of do, at least for matters of this importance, but trying to apply the lens of criminal justice processes or even normal civil processes to this series of events does not match the actual process.
I am not sure where we go from here in terms of FIA-specific processes. The teams can demand all they like in letters and public comments, but the FIA clearly has no intention of revealing any more information, and the teams do not have any escalation path other than legal action, which is very restricted by their agreements to submit to the FIA's processes.
However, I am sure that these events have impacts on the broader commercial arrangements that will exist after this year. Any outcome that reduces Ferrari's influence from the level that it currently enjoys would be regarded as Very Good News by the other teams.

[izzy]

Racefans is saying The 7 have given FIA and F1 7 days to respond, to 30 questions, ie in Oz:

Thus, the FIA is convinced that it had acted correctly – which is in turn contested by the ‘Group of Seven’, who have given the FIA (and F1) seven days to respond to their demand for answers. Thereafter it could get ugly, with the most likely scenario being that they demand both full disclosure of the settlement from the FIA, and commercial redress from F1 for any monies they believe are due them.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/03/06/why ... ngine-row/

So we have that drama to look forward to

[izzy]

"The FIA and Scuderia Ferrari have agreed to a number of technical commitments that will improve the monitoring of all Formula 1 power units for forthcoming championship seasons as well as assist the FIA in other regulatory duties in Formula 1 and in its research activities on carbon emissions and sustainable fuels."

= community service

this is the thing isn't it, along with the dodgy timing of the statement, plus the fact that 3 F1 engine manufacturers simply don't believe they couldn't be sure

[DChemTech]

1) does the current state of affairs warrant further investigation, considering there are suspicions but no clear proof, or is it case closed and other teams just have to deal with it?
2) should more transparency be offered considering the nature of the settlement and alleged breach of regulation?
3) is it fair that Ferrari is 'sentenced' to community service in the field where, allegedly, they may have stretched or breached the regulations, considering they could leverage the additional insights into and potentially even control over the regulations that this offers?

1) Yes/No
2) Yes
3) No

Glad to see we agree

[bonjon1979]

https://www.grandprix.com/news/ferrari- ... marko.html

Red Bull official Dr Helmut Marko told the Munchner Merkur newspaper that the situation is no less than a scandal.

"The whole thing has now taken on FIFA proportions," he said, referring to the world football association's reported corruption some years ago.

"Only one letter is missing between the FIA and FIFA," Marko charged. "In any other association, this would be political suicide by Jean Todt.

"The FIA has discredited a sport in which we invest three-digit million sums of euros each year."

Ouch, there isn’t a carpet big enough to sweep this under. It’s going to be pretty brutal in the lead up to oz.

[santos]

Summary of the topic:
-Ferrari was not playing according to the rules, commonly know as cheating.
-The FIA however could not secure the evidence to build a legal case (which is different than whether or not you did it).
-Max was right (although it was a ‘Prost tractor’ like comment with regards to his future at Ferrari)

Summary of this post is the best way to describe social media.
-First we judge even without know anything.
-Make them burn… let's take the heads of those cheaters
-Let's see some pictures of kittys.

[LM10]

So how exactly can a party be accused of having cheated, if there is no evidence for that? What’s the current proof for that? Their power advantage last season? The 7 teams being mad? Of course they’re going to be mad. They want every detail of how Ferrari’s PU operates.

[dans79]

Clearly evidence existed to trigger investigation and serious negotiation.
I can only repeat what I wrote in an earlier posting. This is a sporting process, not a legal process. The FIA does not have to adhere to conventional standards of legal proof. They sort of do, at least for matters of this importance, but trying to apply the lens of criminal justice processes or even normal civil processes to this series of events does not match the actual process.

The teams are literally spending billions every year to compete. Hundreds of millions in prize money is up for grabs, not to mention the unknown amounts related to sponsorship deals.

With the amount of money involved, and the reputations of massive companies on the line, local little league level officiating is not acceptable.

Imo, civil court is the bar the FIA needs to be held to. Specially when they routinely act like they are at that level.

[the EDGE]

So how exactly can a party be accused of having cheated, if there is no evidence for that? What’s the current proof for that? Their power advantage last season? The 7 teams being mad? Of course they’re going to be mad. They want every detail of how Ferrari’s PU operates.

Accused by who? If you mean the other teams & the sports spectators then clearly its a little late to ask that question, even the FIA have gone as far as suggesting it

If you mean officially charged by the FIA then obviously they can’t. The point is has the FIA completed a thorough investigation or did they throw the towel in half way through for some reason & if so why? And how can the teams have faith in the FIA to police the rules in the future, especially in light of the impending budget cap

[bluechris]

Mark my words, nothing will huppen. "The Magnificent Seven" dont have any proof of anything, just accusations which they love to do. If they have, then how they gain them? there is espionage and it will hit them like boumerang.

[TAG]

4.4kg of the stuff.

4.88kg.

[Just_a_fan]

If you fall back on veiled ad hominem then it's an implicit acceptance that you are unable to argue the points being raised by others.

So thank you for confirming what we all knew. Bye now.

[Pyrone89]

Summary of the topic:
-Ferrari was not playing according to the rules, commonly know as cheating.
-The FIA however could not secure the evidence to build a legal case (which is different than whether or not you did it).
-Max was right (although it was a ‘Prost tractor’ like comment with regards to his future at Ferrari)

Summary of this post is the best way to describe social media.
-First we judge even without know anything.
-Make them burn… let's take the heads of those cheaters
-Let's see some pictures of kittys.

Summary of this post is the best way to describe social media
When you cant argue just start throwing personal insults in the hope no one notices you didnt actually address the issue at hand

[Schumix]

According to Motorsport.com the Ferrari PU investigation revealed that there was something odd, but the FIA delegates werent smart enough to PROVE what was going on. But thats not the interesting part....

If the Motorsport.it people are right, Ferrari were hired to help the FIA get smarter. They mention that they completely opened their doors to the FIA and are working directly with them on the "gray areas" of the F1 regulations. In other words, the government instead of locking up the hacker, has hired the hacker to learn and stop other hackers. The article specifically notes the flexible wings tricks as well as engine tricks where the FIA are DIRECTLY learning from Ferrari. This gives the FIA more knowledge about what the top teams are doing, how they are doing it, and more importantly, they have the ability now to create tests to stop these things.

again...if the article is factually correct...Im not positive, but it makes a lot of sense. Especially from the wording of the release.

In italian but you can translate if you want.
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... e/4722599/

Now riddle me this ... if there's any truth to that ... would someone who is not guilty agree to something like this?

Yes, he can clearly agree. If he just needs to say to the FIA: "OK, I am accused to be doing this and that. But my innovation is this and that. But in other hand, it is possible of doing this and that".
Your question even help us to speculate that some teams can be concerned by the secrets that Ferrari has revealed to the FIA because they can be caught with their finger in the jar of jam.

We can't wait the F1 2020 season to start...