2021 Aero Thread

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maunde
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Zynerji wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:20 am
djos wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:55 am
Zynerji wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:41 am


Inferiority? :wtf: :wtf:

The current passive system has more manhours/FEA hours than any fully active system in existence, I'd bet.

A fully active system could not compete for size and weight. It may give better underbody aero benefit, and more computer control over the outcome of the races, but it is soul less and an artificial driver aid.
It only added 10-12kg to the car weight back in the late 80's.
Compared to 1980's passive systems that were removed? That doesn't mean anything. Today's systems might be 10-12k lighter by themselves, increasing the weight delta immensely.

Today's simple*, passive, well integrated, highly engineered suspension systems are modern art rivalling watchmaking in its perfection. It's hard to imagine kludging it up with an active system that's only benefit is controlling the aero platform. Soulless.
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hollus
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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hollus wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:56 pm
Focus folks: 2021 Aero Thread.
¡Puxa Esportin!

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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mzso wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:50 pm
I remember reading about coating the cars' surface with some sort of foil to mitigate carbon composite rubble on the track due to damage. Is that a thing for 2021, or somethingonly in the research phase.
I think Sauber started it 3/4 years ago, using blue release film from carbon layup. I imagine they're all still using this all over the wings and bargeboards, maybe now it's clear though so less obvious.
#aerogandalf
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GM7
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Image

With the lauch of the new Ferrari i remembered seeing this, one of the place where there is more freedom in 2021 is the engine cover if a understand corretly. So is the 2021 rules allowing some sort of "horns" like the Ferrari ones ?

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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GM7 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:10 pm
With the lauch of the new Ferrari i remembered seeing this, one of the place where there is more freedom in 2021 is the engine cover if a understand corretly. So is the 2021 rules allowing some sort of "horns" like the Ferrari ones ?
Errr... as I read it, no. There is more freedom for the 2021 upper surfaces than the 2021 floor and wings, not that there is more freedom for the upper surfaces than in 2020. The bodywork between 20 and 150mm behind the face rear of the cockpit opening (Xc) has to be at least 50mm thick (i.e. 2x 25mm radii), the only exception is around the aperture for the air intake where there isn't a specified radius.
3.7.3 Engine Cover
Bodywork declared as “Engine Cover” must:
a. Lie within RV-RBW-EC.
b. Be arranged such that when viewed from the side, no part of RS-RBW-EC may be visible, with the exception of the opening described in Article 12.4.1.
3.7.4 Coke Panel and Engine Cover Shape
On each side of the car, the combined external Coke Panel and Engine Cover surfaces must:
a. On any X section, form one tangent continuous curve. Furthermore:
i. Outboard of Y=25 the radius of curvature of any such section must not be less than 75mm if convex, or 50mm if concave, with the exception of a rectangular region bounded in plan view by (XC=20, 175) and (XC=150,375) where the radius of curvature must not be less than 25mm.
ii. Between Y=5 and Y=25 the radius of curvature of any such section must not be less than 25mm.
b. Not contain any apertures ahead of XR= -55, other than those permitted in Article 3.7.6.
c. Not contain any surface parallel to a X plane ahead of XR= -55.
d. Rearward of XR = -300 and prior to the addition of any apertures, the X component of any normal to the external surface must not be negative.
The cameras (position 3) and mounting brackets defined in Article 8.17.8 will be exempt from the restrictions of this Article.
12.4.1 Principal Roll Structure
The principal structure must be at least at Z=958 at XC=35.
The principal roll structure must have a minimum enclosed structural cross section of 10000mm², in vertical projection, across a horizontal plane at Z=900. The area thus established must not exceed 200mm in length or width and may not be less than 10000mm2 below this point.
The principal structure must pass a static load test details of which may be found in Article 13.7.1. Furthermore, each team must supply detailed calculations, which clearly show that it is capable of withstanding the same load when the longitudinal component is applied in a forward direction.
In order that a car may be lifted quickly in the event of it stopping on the circuit, the principal rollover structure must incorporate an unobstructed opening, whose section measures 60mm x 30mm with internal radii of no more than R15mm, clearly visible in side view, to permit a strap to pass through it.
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mzso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:52 am
mzso wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:50 pm
I remember reading about coating the cars' surface with some sort of foil to mitigate carbon composite rubble on the track due to damage. Is that a thing for 2021, or somethingonly in the research phase.
I think Sauber started it 3/4 years ago, using blue release film from carbon layup. I imagine they're all still using this all over the wings and bargeboards, maybe now it's clear though so less obvious.
The context I remember is F1 or the FIA (Symonds?) looking into it.

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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mzso wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:22 pm
[quote=jjn9128 post_id=884032 time=<a href="tel:1581497566">1581497566</a> user_id=37606]
[quote=mzso post_id=883983 time=<a href="tel:1581461413">1581461413</a> user_id=24187]
I remember reading about coating the cars' surface with some sort of foil to mitigate carbon composite rubble on the track due to damage. Is that a thing for 2021, or somethingonly in the research phase.
I think Sauber started it 3/4 years ago, using blue release film from carbon layup. I imagine they're all still using this all over the wings and bargeboards, maybe now it's clear though so less obvious.
[/quote]
The context I remember is F1 or the FIA (Symonds?) looking into it.
[/quote]

Aaah excuse me. Carbon rubble not tyre rubble. I think there's a skin on the FWEP to keep the carbon intact. Also fewer parts to fall off.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

Zynerji
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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maunde wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:09 am
Zynerji wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:20 am
djos wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:55 am


It only added 10-12kg to the car weight back in the late 80's.
Compared to 1980's passive systems that were removed? That doesn't mean anything. Today's systems might be 10-12k lighter by themselves, increasing the weight delta immensely.

Today's simple*, passive, well integrated, highly engineered suspension systems are modern art rivalling watchmaking in its perfection. It's hard to imagine kludging it up with an active system that's only benefit is controlling the aero platform. Soulless.
There is this phenomenal feature of this forum that I would like to let you in on, it's called 'Private messaging' and it allows you to have a private conversation with other forum members, so that you can talk for as long as you like.

Another excellent feature is that you can create new forum topics in which you can define the context/subject to be discussed as opposed to doing so on unrelated topics :)

How is discussing Active Suspension off-topic?

Its sole purpose is to control of the largest aero surface on the cars... 🙄

This is an aero thread, correct?

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Zynerji wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:09 pm



How is discussing Active Suspension off-topic?

Its sole purpose is to control of the largest aero surface on the cars... 🙄

This is an aero thread, correct?
Because the 2021 rules don't allow active suspension and therefore its application to the 2021 aero rules (what this thread is about) is not relevant. I guess. :wink:
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Zynerji
Zynerji
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Fair enough..

mzso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Zynerji wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:09 pm


How is discussing Active Suspension off-topic?

Its sole purpose is to control of the largest aero surface on the cars... 🙄
This is of course completely wrong.

timbo
timbo
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Is it possible to create nostrils within 2021 rules?

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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timbo wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:27 pm
Is it possible to create nostrils within 2021 rules?
I don't think the wording expressly forbids it, but the minimum curvature allowed is 50mm.

That said this line might make it impossible
c. In any Y plane, contain only a single open section.
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"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

Sevach
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14857 ... ted-by-fia

Rules have been modified already.
Specifically something about the FW to prevent downwash(?).
Plus endplates (front and rear) for advertising.
Crash tests are also getting stricter which by the current way of thinking will lead to another weight increase.

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Sevach wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:03 pm
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14857 ... ted-by-fia

Rules have been modified already.
Specifically something about the FW to prevent downwash(?).
Plus endplates (front and rear) for advertising.
Crash tests are also getting stricter which by the current way of thinking will lead to another weight increase.
The rules were always draft and subject to change, it's why the teams are all worried. The updated financial regs were released yesterday, still waiting on the new technical and sporting rules.

There's also going to be tethers for front and rear wings.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica