FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

[Just_a_fan]

If I am the devils advocate.
A system to change the fuel flow rate that is positioned before the measurement point is then within the regulations.

Imagine adding another measurement point before that imagined device, then the device would break the rules.

How does changing the flow rate before the measuring point benefit performance?

[erikejw]

If I am the devils advocate.
A system to change the fuel flow rate that is positioned before the measurement point is then within the regulations.

Imagine adding another measurement point before that imagined device, then the device would break the rules.

How does changing the flow rate before the measuring point benefit performance?

Any device, system or procedure ... the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate or to store and recycle fuel ... after the measurement point is prohibited.

It's a complex sentence, it can be read as ,
Any device ... effects ... after the measurement point is prohibited.

If the device is positioned before the measurement point but the effect is taking place after it, it will be within the rules but dark shady grey.

[3jawchuck]

If I am the devils advocate.
A system to change the fuel flow rate that is positioned before the measurement point is then within the regulations.
Imagine adding another measurement point before that imagined device, then the device would break the rules.

How does changing the flow rate before the measuring point benefit performance?

Any device, system or procedure ... the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate or to store and recycle fuel ... after the measurement point is prohibited.
It's a complex sentence, it can be read as ,
Any device ... effects ... after the measurement point is prohibited.
If the device is positioned before the measurement point but the effect is taking place after it, it will be within the rules but dark shady grey.

But, with the sensor after this trickery, the flow rate will be measured and required to be within regulations. What are you thinking the value of this will be?

[Just_a_fan]

If I am the devils advocate.
A system to change the fuel flow rate that is positioned before the measurement point is then within the regulations.

Imagine adding another measurement point before that imagined device, then the device would break the rules.

How does changing the flow rate before the measuring point benefit performance?

Any device, system or procedure ... the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate or to store and recycle fuel ... after the measurement point is prohibited.

It's a complex sentence, it can be read as ,
Any device ... effects ... after the measurement point is prohibited.

If the device is positioned before the measurement point but the effect is taking place after it, it will be within the rules but dark shady grey.

If you store fuel before the meter and then move it to after the meter without going through the meter then you're breaking the rules. That's obvious, surely?

[3jawchuck]

How does changing the flow rate before the measuring point benefit performance?

Any device, system or procedure ... the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate or to store and recycle fuel ... after the measurement point is prohibited.
It's a complex sentence, it can be read as ,
Any device ... effects ... after the measurement point is prohibited.
If the device is positioned before the measurement point but the effect is taking place after it, it will be within the rules but dark shady grey.

If you store fuel before the meter and then move it to after the meter without going through the meter then you're breaking the rules. That's obvious, surely?

Indeed, codified and not grey but very very black, if that is indeed what they're referring to.

5.10.3 ... Furthermore, all fuel delivered to the power unit must pass through this homologated sensor, and must all be delivered to the combustion chambers by the fuel injectors described by Article 5.10.2.

[KeiKo403]

Any device, system or procedure ... the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate or to store and recycle fuel ... after the measurement point is prohibited.
It's a complex sentence, it can be read as ,
Any device ... effects ... after the measurement point is prohibited.
If the device is positioned before the measurement point but the effect is taking place after it, it will be within the rules but dark shady grey.

If you store fuel before the meter and then move it to after the meter without going through the meter then you're breaking the rules. That's obvious, surely?

Indeed, codified and not grey but very very black, if that is indeed what they're referring to.

5.10.3 ... Furthermore, all fuel delivered to the power unit must pass through this homologated sensor, and must all be delivered to the combustion chambers by the fuel injectors described by Article 5.10.2.

What if it isn't 'Fuel'? Oil isn't fuel, technically.

On a few separate notes:
1. I think all of the engine manufactures most likely already know what Ferrari were doing, the pressure they are putting on the FIA is to probably publicly out them as supporting Ferrari or trying to cover something up. I don't think the fight is because they want to know technical data.
1a. Although, a counter thought could be that teams don't know what Ferrari were doing but what they were doing was wrong. The FIA have maybe told them they can't do something that drastic but admit to a loophole which Ferrari could possibly still use but just to a lesser degree. If the FIA were to publicly share the results of the investigation could it be (written more technically but...) "Ferrari were using peak 110kg/h but due to a grey area this has been dialed back to 105kg/h" The FIA can't really tell the other teams what Ferrari are doing in that case.

2. Irrelevant of what Ferrari were doing, if they had something (software or hardware) which was giving them an advantage then if this wasn't available to Haas & Alfa then isn't that against rules of different spec PUs for customer teams?

[Big Tea]

If you store fuel before the meter and then move it to after the meter without going through the meter then you're breaking the rules. That's obvious, surely?

Indeed, codified and not grey but very very black, if that is indeed what they're referring to.

5.10.3 ... Furthermore, all fuel delivered to the power unit must pass through this homologated sensor, and must all be delivered to the combustion chambers by the fuel injectors described by Article 5.10.2.

What if it isn't 'Fuel'? Oil isn't fuel, technically.

On a few separate notes:
1. I think all of the engine manufactures most likely already know what Ferrari were doing, the pressure they are putting on the FIA is to probably publicly out them as supporting Ferrari or trying to cover something up. I don't think the fight is because they want to know technical data.
1a. Although, a counter thought could be that teams don't know what Ferrari were doing but what they were doing was wrong. The FIA have maybe told them they can't do something that drastic but admit to a loophole which Ferrari could possibly still use but just to a lesser degree. If the FIA were to publicly share the results of the investigation could it be (written more technically but...) "Ferrari were using peak 110kg/h but due to a grey area this has been dialed back to 105kg/h" The FIA can't really tell the other teams what Ferrari are doing in that case.

2. Irrelevant of what Ferrari were doing, if they had something (software or hardware) which was giving them an advantage then if this wasn't available to Haas & Alfa then isn't that against rules of different spec PUs for customer teams?

I was thinking at one time 'maybe it is a powder?" or something that flakes off a component and adds 'value' to the fuel?

It was then pointed out to me that the rules strictly forbid anything that is not 'fuel', and 'all fuel' has to pass through the gauge.

[Xwang]

https://www.formulapassion.it/motorspor ... 86035.html
Mercedes seems to leave the magnificent seven teams group.

[bosyber]

https://www.formulapassion.it/motorspor ... 86035.html
Mercedes seems to leave the magnificent seven teams group.

Due to the head of Daimler stepping in after a call with head of Ferrari - well, that's the way these things go I guess; in the end, Mercedes is the only one of those teams that had little money to win by it, and the automotive world clearly can deal with some amount of murky rule bending being settled (dieselgate anyone - yes also for Daimler still not quite done).

Still, if so, notable that Red Bull believes Mercedes engine department probably knows what Ferrari did - they didn't share it, possibly bc. upper management refused that. Renault and Honda are in a different position, but let's see.

[strad]

What if it isn't 'Fuel'? Oil isn't fuel, technically.

Anything injected into the combustion chamber that burns is fuel.

[BTS]

If Renault and Honda step out I will be done with F1

[Just_a_fan]

If Renault and Honda step out I will be done with F1

If Renault and Honda step out of F1, F1 will be done...

[McG]

The sooner you realise all big sports and forums/comments sections (especially this forum with the crappy immature voting system), is basically a troll fest, the better you can pay less attention to the trolls or join in yourself.

I see very few on this forum can handle opposing views.
Here are some off the “down vote” comments:

Delusional denial of facts - ( The fact is I don’t see “any” facts on here just some fans not happy that a press release did not say what they hoped it would say.

regulations clearly state any circumvention of fuel flow limit is forbidden - There has been no protest lodged for any FF irregularities. Infact the only team ever to have fallen foul of this is Red Bull Racing.

zero substance, ignoring facts, fanyboyism – really and blind hatred and foaming at the mouth because a press statement did not say what you would have liked? Talk about projection!

Oversimplying – No idea on this one!

Pathetic really that we have become so weak.
Even Moderators hide behind trolling if you don’t support their view.

So as from now I will support the popular view.
Ferrari needs to be stripped off all points since the start of the hybrid era.
There is no place for the FIA. Motorsport direction and governing should lie exclusively with Mercedes Benz....

[NL_Fer]

If I am the devils advocate.
A system to change the fuel flow rate that is positioned before the measurement point is then within the regulations.

Imagine adding another measurement point before that imagined device, then the device would break the rules.

How does changing the flow rate before the measuring point benefit performance?

Any device, system or procedure ... the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate or to store and recycle fuel ... after the measurement point is prohibited.

It's a complex sentence, it can be read as ,
Any device ... effects ... after the measurement point is prohibited.

If the device is positioned before the measurement point but the effect is taking place after it, it will be within the rules but dark shady grey.

Like some sort of treatment or process to the fuel, which lowers how it is measured? Could be possible, but the flow meters are also calibrated to each fuel.

[PlatinumZealot]

Guys pat your self on the back for proposing using a feedback loop from the sensor and metering pulses of fuel at a high frequency than the meter sample rate. "ailiasing trick". This was what was suspected by RedBull and seemed to what Ferrari was allegedly doing.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/03/16/how ... ing-trick/