Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
hurril
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Joined: 07 Oct 2014, 13:02

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The entire unit looks too small though compared to pictures of the whole power unit. This looks to me like the one in the earliest engines, the ones where this entire turbo machinery assembly was inside the cylinder banks.

saviour stivala
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Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 12:54

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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hurril wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 10:37
The entire unit looks too small though compared to pictures of the whole power unit. This looks to me like the one in the earliest engines, the ones where this entire turbo machinery assembly was inside the cylinder banks.
It is too blurred to calculate anything.

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etusch
131
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Wouter wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 10:28
etusch wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 08:40
It would be great to have eng subs
You can choose the language yourself by activating the subtitle and then choosing your language
in settings under "automatic translation".
Oo thanks I just tried subtitle, there was not any then watched without understanding 😁

saviour stivala
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Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 12:54

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 12:16
Wouter wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 10:28
etusch wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 08:40
It would be great to have eng subs
You can choose the language yourself by activating the subtitle and then choosing your language
in settings under "automatic translation".
Oo thanks I just tried subtitle, there was not any then watched without understanding 😁
The blurring of the turbo/MGU-H assembly is for sure intentional and that spoiled the whole thing. Shame.
I tried subtitles too and I too found nothing.

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ispano6
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Joined: 09 Mar 2017, 23:56
Location: my playseat

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Hit CC to open closed captions, then the gear icon and change the language.

The English auto translate won't give you much details seeing some of the translation talks about eating and other nonsensical stuff.

What they are displaying is likely RA617H internals, possibly RA618H. Wazari-san probably could tell us. A good portion talks about bearing size and thickness can't be too large in order to achieve and maintain peak RPM.

Seeing the internal apparatus of the split turbo in front of the three gentlemen reminds me of how compact this PU really is.

saviour stivala
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Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 12:54

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ispano6 wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 16:55
Hit CC to open closed captions, then the gear icon and change the language.

The English auto translate won't give you much details seeing some of the translation talks about eating and other nonsensical stuff.

What they are displaying is likely RA617H internals, possibly RA618H. Wazari-san probably could tell us. A good portion talks about bearing size and thickness can't be too large in order to achieve and maintain peak RPM.

Seeing the internal apparatus of the split turbo in front of the three gentlemen reminds me of how compact this PU really is.
What 'internals' of the split Honda turbo have you seen?

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Wazari
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Joined: 17 Jun 2015, 15:49

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ispano6 wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 16:55
Hit CC to open closed captions, then the gear icon and change the language.

The English auto translate won't give you much details seeing some of the translation talks about eating and other nonsensical stuff.

What they are displaying is likely RA617H internals, possibly RA618H. Wazari-san probably could tell us. A good portion talks about bearing size and thickness can't be too large in order to achieve and maintain peak RPM.

Seeing the internal apparatus of the split turbo in front of the three gentlemen reminds me of how compact this PU really is.
618. The 619 is quite different.
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ispano6
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Joined: 09 Mar 2017, 23:56
Location: my playseat

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 18:36
ispano6 wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 16:55
Hit CC to open closed captions, then the gear icon and change the language.

The English auto translate won't give you much details seeing some of the translation talks about eating and other nonsensical stuff.

What they are displaying is likely RA617H internals, possibly RA618H. Wazari-san probably could tell us. A good portion talks about bearing size and thickness can't be too large in order to achieve and maintain peak RPM.

Seeing the internal apparatus of the split turbo in front of the three gentlemen reminds me of how compact this PU really is.
What 'internals' of the split Honda turbo have you seen?
Just what is visible in the video, but as Wazari-san said it's RA618H, likely Spec 2 and after since they are talking about it as if the bearing issues were applied in the demonstration unit. These men standing in front of it aren't that big people mind you, it's a marvel how short the compressor to turbine is which looks like it's still pretty much within the V. The V might have been flattened and spread apart a bit so that the apparatus can reside between the cylinder banks.

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PlatinumZealot
550
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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It is commendable that Honda is showing us this. And using ACTUAL engineers to explain it to us.

The European F1 culture is one of secrecy, one of the reasons being that engineering personnel are easily poached once the money and perks are right. The Japanese have a huge language, cultural and geographical barriers so their engineers are mostly safe from poaching and why they can show of their engineers so easily.

These Honda engineers have a very cautious look about them, like, hey be careful of revealing too much!
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godlameroso
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Saishū kōnā

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etusch
131
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Image

En interesting design (at least for me)
Image

gruntguru
563
Joined: 21 Feb 2009, 07:43

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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WOW. Reading the fine print in that first image (It doesn't look fake). Compressor PR is 5:1. Turbine power is "4 city cars". Exhaust temp 1000+*C.

At 5:1 PR the AFR is >2.0 lambda - almost certainly stratified charge on top of TJI. Compressor power perhaps 200 kW. Turbine power perhaps 350 kW.

These numbers have moved along a lot since the early days.
je suis charlie

63l8qrrfy6
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Joined: 17 Feb 2016, 21:36

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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gruntguru wrote:
11 Apr 2020, 02:18
At 5:1 PR the AFR is >2.0 lambda
How can you tell ? Massflow rate could still be anything ?

gruntguru
563
Joined: 21 Feb 2009, 07:43

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I didn't bother doing the calcs (I will later) but from memory (using reasonable assumptions) for 3.5 bar MAP, the mass flow was 0.55 and AFR was 1.6 - 1.8.

Assumptions:
- RPM = 11,000
- VE = 1.1 - 1.2
- CAT = 30* - 50* C
- Compressor isentropic efficiency = 0.8
je suis charlie

trinidefender
317
Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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gruntguru wrote:
11 Apr 2020, 07:19
I didn't bother doing the calcs (I will later) but from memory (using reasonable assumptions) for 3.5 bar MAP, the mass flow was 0.55 and AFR was 1.6 - 1.8.

Assumptions:
- RPM = 11,000
- VE = 1.1 - 1.2
- CAT = 30* - 50* C
- Compressor isentropic efficiency = 0.8
I would imagine slightly lower VE due to shaping ports for highly controlled combustion, swirl and tumble. Especially if stratified combustion is used. Wouldn't that push the emphasis away from pure airflow?