2017-2020 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
User avatar
godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

How powerful are the sidepod fences? It's obvious that they have to deal with the outwash of the bargeboards, the turbulence of the front tires as well as any longitudinal airflow all at once, while also guiding air into the sidepod inlets.
Saishū kōnā

User avatar
Blackout
1562
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:12

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

An interesting CFD comparison between the effects of the thumb nose and the thin nose
https://salientedge.com/blog/2018/5/16/ ... ose-part-2

User avatar
MtthsMlw
1033
Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 18:38
Location: Germany

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

According to AMuS any tyre squirt slots will be banned for 2021 to cut down on DF as Pirelli doesn't want to develop new tyres for 2021.
Source
PS: One could update this thread's title to 2017-2021.

Sevach
1043
Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 17:00

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

Pirelli are such control freaks, Bridgestone wasn't this paranoid under stable regulations.

User avatar
jjn9128
769
Joined: 02 May 2017, 23:53

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

TBF to Pirelli the cars had less downforce in the Bridgestone era. Also they weren't deliberately making tyres to fall apart. Don't get me wrong Pirelli have been just about the worst thing ever to happen to f1 but it's not entirely their fault/ineptitude.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

User avatar
Morteza
2308
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:23
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

User avatar
Morteza
2308
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:23
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare


User avatar
jjn9128
769
Joined: 02 May 2017, 23:53

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

For supposedly stable regulations they sure are making a load of changes... :roll:
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

User avatar
Morteza
2308
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:23
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

I totally missed that topic. I'll post them there
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

User avatar
Morteza
2308
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:23
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

jjn9128 wrote:
28 Aug 2020, 22:22
For supposedly stable regulations they sure are making a load of changes... :roll:
Yup, the rules were supposed to remain stable to cut down on costs. Now they are adding more and more changes to counteract Pirelli's incomptenece, adding more cost :|
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

User avatar
jjn9128
769
Joined: 02 May 2017, 23:53

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

Morteza wrote:
28 Aug 2020, 22:43
Yup, the rules were supposed to remain stable to cut down on costs. Now they are adding more and more changes to counteract Pirelli's incomptenece, adding more cost :|
I'll defend Pirelli a bit. The teams were the ones who rejected the 2020 tyres. But as we now know the fia value development of rear brake ducts at $500,000 - that's a drivers wage for a mid/rear field team.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

mzso
59
Joined: 05 Apr 2014, 14:52

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

It would have been more sane to backtrack on their position and get Pirelli to produce tougher tires for next year.

User avatar
Bandit1216
21
Joined: 05 Oct 2018, 16:55
Location: Netherlands

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

Hi all.

I hope this is not covered before but I have a question about double diffuser -ish type advantages. Because merc is still so dominant I'm wondering more and more what their advantage is. Especially because it's not obvious where they get their downforce. Not for me at least. Not saying they cheat but:

Would it be within the rules, or perhaps a good way to bend the rules, when you create extra air movement above the diffuser with air coming from completely somewhere else? A bit hard to explain what I mean. Let's say you use a s duct type hole in the nose. Or perhaps even the air intake above the driver. I can think of other places to harvest cool air. Maybe from where the plank begins, above the plank where the air splits to left and right. Would it be possible to channel that air all the way to the diffuser secretly. Would it even benefit? Also intake above the engine is now more then just an inlet. 2/3 is used to cool a radiator. I'm quite sure it's not allowed to harvest cool air under the floor, or introduce extra air under the floor, but what about the area above the diffuser?

Could you mix cool air with the hot air out of the body to create extra downforce? Or jet cool air out and upwards somewhere between the diffuser and the rear light/crash structure. Or simply use cool air from completely somewhere else to create a blown diffuser?

Am I just thinking of things thought of by others, way before me, or talking complete BS?
Last edited by Bandit1216 on 30 Oct 2020, 12:05, edited 1 time in total.
But just suppose it weren't hypothetical.

User avatar
jjn9128
769
Joined: 02 May 2017, 23:53

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

Bandit1216 wrote:
30 Oct 2020, 09:56
I hope this is not covered before but I have a question about double diffuser -ish type advantages. Because merc is still so dominant I'm wondering more and more what their advantage is. Especially because it's not obvious where they get their downforce. Not for me at least. Not saying they cheat but:
Mercedes advantage is in everything. The have the best engine on the grid, but also because they design it they have the cooling tuned perfectly - one of the reasons they're poorer in traffic than others. Ferrari and Red Bull have this but are down on power compared to the Merc. They have enough money that they can make parts lighter-weight than most of the rest of the field - if the COG can be lowered by 10mm it's worth ~0.1s/lap. They have a good aero-platform, but also a stable aero-platform so the drivers are able to push with confidence - unlike the Ferrari and Red Bull which seem to have handling issues with one of their drivers (Albon unstable rear, Vettel can't get the tyres turned on for qualifying). It also means the car is gentle on its tyres because the drivers aren't sliding, and Hamilton seems to be better at keeping the tyres alive. They understand the Pirelli tyres, after their secret tyre test in 2013 they seem to have an innate and unmatched understanding of the Pirelli rubber... make of that what you will.

Once you start adding up all the little advantages then it becomes a big advantage. I don't think there's a trick they're just outspending and out-engineering their rivals.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica