[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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The good suffers for the bad basically... Unfrotunate. It would be a shame if Daniel had to get a big pay cut in his first year.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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djos
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:55 pm
The good suffers for the bad basically... Unfrotunate. It would be a shame if Daniel had to get a big pay cut in his first year.
TBH I think he, and most drivers, would take a short term pay cut if he thought McLaren were going to be competitive for race wins and ultimately the WDC/WCC.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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adrianjordan
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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I've said it over on another thread. I don't think this would even have made the media if it wasn't for Williams being for sale.

It's basically a shareholders loan to cover the shortfall caused by Covid-19.

Shareholders loans happen all the time in businesses and are not really a big deal.
Since I've ordered an electric car, does that mean I should start watching Formula E?

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godlameroso
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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Emag wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:55 pm
Has anyone saved the longrun data from pre season testing? I would like to refresh my memory now that the season is about to start.
I had an excel file prepared after preseason ended but I might have deleted by accident since I can't find it right now.
Any help is appreciated.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ER308M8WoAA ... name=large
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bauc
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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adrianjordan wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:47 am
I've said it over on another thread. I don't think this would even have made the media if it wasn't for Williams being for sale.

It's basically a shareholders loan to cover the shortfall caused by Covid-19.

Shareholders loans happen all the time in businesses and are not really a big deal.
When you have such a long off season + world pandemic, every bit of info makes the news.....

Now we can focus on the start of the season, I'm hoping we can have both cars in q3 and points :)
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McFAN
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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Emag wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:55 pm
Has anyone saved the longrun data from pre season testing? I would like to refresh my memory now that the season is about to start.
I had an excel file prepared after preseason ended but I might have deleted by accident since I can't find it right now.
Any help is appreciated.
Race stint data of sainz Vs both mercedes drivers verstappen and ricciardo.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERUH9DKXYAA ... name=large

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adrianjordan
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Anyone else concerned that Renault are going to repeat what they (are alleged to) have done to other departing partners and give McLaren sub-par parts?

Seems they've already blocked them from pre-season preparation by not providing a PU for a filming day on top of not helping them to be able to run a 2018 car the other week.

Really not showing Renault in the best light. I used to have a soft spot for the team from Enstone when Kimi and then Robert K drove for them.
Since I've ordered an electric car, does that mean I should start watching Formula E?

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godlameroso
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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They are one step behind on fuel and lubricants. The power units are identical.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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_cerber1
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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Emag wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:55 pm
Has anyone saved the longrun data from pre season testing? I would like to refresh my memory now that the season is about to start.
I had an excel file prepared after preseason ended but I might have deleted by accident since I can't find it right now.
Any help is appreciated.
day 6
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Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Ever since the break with Mercedes in 2009 and the inception of McLaren Automotive from low volume supercars to a sports car factory, the McLaren Group has struggled behind the scenes. A very large debt rate, with lots of refinancing to be done the coming years, the whole Ron Dennis situation (who tried to take over control by buying the company with Chinese banks), drop in demand and now an ageing platform.

That the royal family secured the loan is very good news, but the question is if it’s a risk loan or that they are secured by for instance their historic car collection.

Their owners don’t have a McLaren as a hobby. If the mid term doesn’t look profitable soon, there is a good chance they will sell their stake.

Having both Automotive and Racing under the same brand name is a big downside. Even if the group is divided again, Racing can’t be sold to a party like VW, PSA or whoever. A good engine deal, as a car manufacturer is also difficult. As a racing team, Williams might even be a better option to invest in, because they are way more flexible.

But who knows:.. if the economy rises again, a party like Kia/Hyundai? As far as I know, they don’t have a sports car brand yet.

Bill
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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If they would stayed the course with Honda a lot their financial issues would have been addressed.they went from being a works team which in principle could compete with the likes Mercedes and Ferrari to a midfield team on verge of bankruptcy.they wanted instant gratification they should have gone through pain just like Honda until eventually everything works it is just how development in engineering works. When USA was in a space race with Soviet Union it was a disaster from the beginning with rockets blowing all over at launch before they eventually set foot on the Moon.

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Bill wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:03 pm
If they would stayed the course with Honda a lot their financial issues would have been addressed.they went from being a works team which in principle could compete with the likes Mercedes and Ferrari to a midfield team on verge of bankruptcy.they wanted instant gratification they should have gone through pain just like Honda until eventually everything works it is just how development in engineering works. When USA was in a space race with Soviet Union it was a disaster from the beginning with rockets blowing all over at launch before they eventually set foot on the Moon.
This plus the promise of Dennis that he would buy out the current owners after they sank deep into their pockets to buy back the Mercedes owned stock. This failed on Dennis his part and let to his exit. So the current owners were not only promised a good return of investment in 2009 when they had to buy back 40% of stock, they had to buy an additional 25% when Dennis couldn’t provide them with a buyer.

So, they own a company they didn’t want to own and it’s not making money.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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adrianjordan wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:32 pm
Anyone else concerned that Renault are going to repeat what they (are alleged to) have done to other departing partners and give McLaren sub-par parts?

Seems they've already blocked them from pre-season preparation by not providing a PU for a filming day on top of not helping them to be able to run a 2018 car the other week.

Really not showing Renault in the best light. I used to have a soft spot for the team from Enstone when Kimi and then Robert K drove for them.
Nobody blocked anyone. I've said this before. If that stuff would have been in the PU contract, They would have gotten it. The fact that they didn't get it means it wasn't in the contract or they didn't want to spend the money on it.

nobody's giving anyone an competative edge for free.
I'm sure if Mclaren would have forked over the million Pound (or whatever the price is) for the PU. Renault would have given them one.

We see news of McLaren having cash flow problems but you automatically think it's renault not willing to give PU, instead of mcLaren not willing to spend.

SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Bill wrote:If they would stayed the course with Honda a lot their financial issues would have been addressed.they went from being a works team which in principle could compete with the likes Mercedes and Ferrari to a midfield team on verge of bankruptcy.they wanted instant gratification they should have gone through pain just like Honda until eventually everything works it is just how development in engineering works. When USA was in a space race with Soviet Union it was a disaster from the beginning with rockets blowing all over at launch before they eventually set foot on the Moon.
Not necessarily, the financial issues plaguing Mclaren today aren’t related to the Racing division per se... Would it have been better from a Cash Flow perspective? Definitely, since they would have benefited of the investment from Honda... Nevertheless, it may not have covered the problems conveying the team today.

On the other hand, the issues from the relationship with Honda could have easily trickle down to the automotive division, which would have been a bigger problem... The decision to move away from Honda when it was made, was the right one... The fact that they had issues with the 2018 car, not related to the PU, is a different situation in itself.

As a matter of fact, the issues in 2018 and the divorce from Honda (and the pain that came from it) may end been very beneficial, since it forced the team to look at themselves with a more critical attitude, forced them to rebuild and change the way they were tackling their racing operations... In the long term, it could prove to be the best thing that could have happened today.

The financial issues today are due to a Pandemic that is having an effect on everyone, not so long ago we were discussing whether Mercedes was going to stay in F1, similar with Renault and others.


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Jolle
Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:33 pm
Bill wrote:If they would stayed the course with Honda a lot their financial issues would have been addressed.they went from being a works team which in principle could compete with the likes Mercedes and Ferrari to a midfield team on verge of bankruptcy.they wanted instant gratification they should have gone through pain just like Honda until eventually everything works it is just how development in engineering works. When USA was in a space race with Soviet Union it was a disaster from the beginning with rockets blowing all over at launch before they eventually set foot on the Moon.
Not necessarily, the financial issues plaguing Mclaren today aren’t related to the Racing division per se... Would it have been better from a Cash Flow perspective? Definitely, since they would have benefited of the investment from Honda... Nevertheless, it may not have covered the problems conveying the team today.

On the other hand, the issues from the relationship with Honda could have easily trickle down to the automotive division, which would have been a bigger problem... The decision to move away from Honda when it was made, was the right one... The fact that they had issues with the 2018 car, not related to the PU, is a different situation in itself.

As a matter of fact, the issues in 2018 and the divorce from Honda (and the pain that came from it) may end been very beneficial, since it forced the team to look at themselves with a more critical attitude, forced them to rebuild and change the way they were tackling their racing operations... In the long term, it could prove to be the best thing that could have happened today.

The financial issues today are due to a Pandemic that is having an effect on everyone, not so long ago we were discussing whether Mercedes was going to stay in F1, similar with Renault and others.


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Mclaren is a group. The extra income of $100, free engines, drivers and marketing is a lot. During 2018 they had to sell historic cars to compensate the giant loss at the racing team. There might be somehow be a good side to it... but I don't see it. RedBull winning and podiums for Toro Rosso might more make the decision of the McLaren management to break with Honda even more painful. I suspect it was a choice to keep Alonso and the possibility to attract better sponsorship, the lack in leadership in 2017 and not "getting" that their 2017 chassis was underperforming a push in the wrong direction. At the moment they are quite large car manufacturer who is in financial stress with a racing team that is underperforming. An extra investment into the racing team is not logical and wil not be on the priority list of the owners.