2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Racer X
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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zibby43 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:05 pm
Gerhardsa wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:38 pm
Bill wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:32 am
Mercedes have to solve their cooling issues ,reliability and high altitude weakness am putting my money on Redbull Honda winning the race.
Would love to know where you get you insider information from. LOL, not even one lap turned in anger anywhere and they already have cooling issues.
Think he was going off of last year's car/PU, which had a fundamental cooling problem that could not be fixed because they miscalculated the cooling requirements in the design phase. It was addressed *slightly* during a Germany update (added a new ERS cooler, slightly more open bodywork in a few places, including a less restrictive engine cover).

For 2020, however, Bill must've missed the fact that Mercedes have said several times that the W11 rectified all of the cooling problems of the W10 (while still making the system smaller). This has been covered by several outlets. It mentioned how the PU was able to exceed limits the engineers thought it was capable of in '19 because of how hot they had to run it all the time.

A refresher, for Bill:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... e/4685459/

All i understood was Pink Mercedes has some cooling problems they need to resolve.
PINK//BLM//MERCEDES
"I learned a lot from him" _Grosjean on Maldonado'.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Joseph Hudson wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:34 pm
if das is used this weekend will it be protested
Don't think it would make much difference.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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jumpingfish
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Mark Hughes and Giorgio Piola about Austria and Hungary
In terms of downforce sensitivity, Austria ranked 19th out of the 21 circuits visited last year. Hungary ranked fifth. Power sensitivity is conventionally measured as the calculated lap time benefit of each extra 10bhp: Around the Styrian track, an extra 10bhp might be expected to yield around 0.19s of lap time. But around the Hungaroring, it would be only around 0.12s.
...
For the Austria/Hungary comparison aerodynamic drag can effectively be ignored, as the drag sensitivity difference between the two tracks is marginal (Austria is the 15th most sensitive, Hungary 20th) as neither feature particularly long straights.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... gU1Lq.html

As we know, Ferrari will not bring aero updates for Austria (from AMuS). But do they need those updates there ? Isn't it better to prepare updates for Hungary then?

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etusch
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Dee wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:04 am
It will be interesting to see how Mercedes and Red Bull do, both are putting updates on their cars without on track/race testing.

I think this mean that Redbull and Mercedes are confident about their cfd & wind tunnel data because of their winter test works match with those datas.
Ferrari are not that level for now.

Bill
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Mercedes still haven't solved their high attitude weakness for about how many years? 3 to be precise weather is a feature or weakness they think they can leave with.we saw during testing they were having a lot different issues so I wouldn't be so confident they solved them .what get said and what transpires in real life are not always same

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Juzh
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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jumpingfish wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:41 am
Mark Hughes and Giorgio Piola about Austria and Hungary
In terms of downforce sensitivity, Austria ranked 19th out of the 21 circuits visited last year. Hungary ranked fifth. Power sensitivity is conventionally measured as the calculated lap time benefit of each extra 10bhp: Around the Styrian track, an extra 10bhp might be expected to yield around 0.19s of lap time. But around the Hungaroring, it would be only around 0.12s.
...
For the Austria/Hungary comparison aerodynamic drag can effectively be ignored, as the drag sensitivity difference between the two tracks is marginal (Austria is the 15th most sensitive, Hungary 20th) as neither feature particularly long straights.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... gU1Lq.html

As we know, Ferrari will not bring aero updates for Austria (from AMuS). But do they need those updates there ? Isn't it better to prepare updates for Hungary then?
Nice find. Thanks.

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Wouter
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Bill wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:17 am
Mercedes still haven't solved their high attitude weakness for about how many years? 3 to be precise weather is a feature or weakness they think they can leave with.we saw during testing they were having a lot different issues so I wouldn't be so confident they solved them .what get said and what transpires in real life are not always same
Toto said Mercedes solved their problems. You can read it everywere @Bill.

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Gerhardsa
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Wouter wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:47 am
Bill wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:17 am
Mercedes still haven't solved their high attitude weakness for about how many years? 3 to be precise weather is a feature or weakness they think they can leave with.we saw during testing they were having a lot different issues so I wouldn't be so confident they solved them .what get said and what transpires in real life are not always same
Toto said Mercedes solved their problems. You can read it everywere @Bill.
Maybe he is referring to the 2019 Mercedes that was painted pink :lol:
The Silver/(black now) Mercedes should be okay from all the articles and interviews on the subject.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Bill wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:17 am
Mercedes still haven't solved their high attitude weakness for about how many years? 3 to be precise weather is a feature or weakness they think they can leave with.we saw during testing they were having a lot different issues so I wouldn't be so confident they solved them .what get said and what transpires in real life are not always same
Three different issues i remember:
Turbo-size.
Engine Cooling
Some tyre temperature issues they had in Mexico 2018.

They solved two of the latter. The first one doesn't need to be solved! 8)
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TAG
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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The way 2020 has gone so far, I'm not counting on this race being held until the red lights go out Sunday.
Countdown to 91: 7 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Racer X
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Gerhardsa wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:09 pm
Wouter wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:47 am
Bill wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:17 am
Mercedes still haven't solved their high attitude weakness for about how many years? 3 to be precise weather is a feature or weakness they think they can leave with.we saw during testing they were having a lot different issues so I wouldn't be so confident they solved them .what get said and what transpires in real life are not always same
Toto said Mercedes solved their problems. You can read it everywere @Bill.
Maybe he is referring to the 2019 Mercedes that was painted pink :lol:
The Silver/(black now) Mercedes should be okay from all the articles and interviews on the subject.

Thats what im saying the cooling problems Mercedes had... Are actually a Pink problem now... :D

And for 2 races no less.... If Racing Point has heating *issue's* this weekend we will know how MUCH they copied or were straight given plans by Mercedes. In my opinion as a Racing Point Fan... lol Weather or not they get away with it is another issue because likely they will even if all teams cry since the FIA already signed off on the Racing Point.
Last edited by Racer X on Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PINK//BLM//MERCEDES
"I learned a lot from him" _Grosjean on Maldonado'.

Moore77
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Racer X wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:53 pm
Gerhardsa wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:09 pm
Wouter wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:47 am


Toto said Mercedes solved their problems. You can read it everywere @Bill.
Maybe he is referring to the 2019 Mercedes that was painted pink :lol:
The Silver/(black now) Mercedes should be okay from all the articles and interviews on the subject.

Thats what im saying the cooling problems Mercedes had... Are actually a Pink problem now... :D

And for 2 races no less.... If Racing Point has heating issued this weekend we will know how MUCH they copied or were straight given plans by Mercedes. In my opinion as a Racing Point Fan... lol Weather or not they get away with it is another issue because likely they will even if all teams cry since the FIA already signed off on the Racing Point.
A 2019 Mercedes chassis with a 2020 PU having cooling problem would be a disaster for Mercedes HPP and for Petronas, which I fully doubt. Moreso in far far cooler conditions that are predicted for this weekend compared to unprecedented hot temperatures of last year.

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Racer X
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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I forgot about the 2020 PU units versus 2019 apologies you are right.
PINK//BLM//MERCEDES
"I learned a lot from him" _Grosjean on Maldonado'.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Speaking of which. Looks like FP1 will be rained out, FP2 should be dry. Then dry for the rest of the weekend with temperatures in the mid 20's, the sun will surely raise track temperatures to 40c+
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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godlameroso wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:41 pm
Speaking of which. Looks like FP1 will be rained out, FP2 should be dry. Then dry for the rest of the weekend with temperatures in the mid 20's, the sun will surely raise track temperatures to 40c+
Have a good link for weather at the track?