DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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siskue2005
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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3jawchuck wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:11 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:51 pm
In case no-one else has seen this;
https://twitter.com/Luca_Flaminio/statu ... 1112150016
It appears that Merc were using the DAS system at the Hungaroring in 2018. I'm not 100% convinced either way. There is a rain drop that gets on the camera lens which I believe is creating the 'movement'.
That looks more like distortion. Other stuff in and around the cockpit moves at the same time.
Nope, look at his hand in relation to his helmet, the helmet stays in the same place but the hand moves closer. put the mouse pointer in the position

Edit: After seeing the pole lap in 1080p it seems like it is only a distortion of the lens due to rain
i stand corrected
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE7CNFs ... e=emb_logo

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RZS10
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... r%2077.pdf

It's completely legal and considered to be part of the steering system.

e30ernest
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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RZS10 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:07 am
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... r%2077.pdf

It's completely legal and considered to be part of the steering system.
So I guess this should be that? I doubt there is any point in protesting that further.

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RZS10
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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Yep ... Horner just said "Book closed" on sky ... so that's that.

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nevill3
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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But then he said that they may ask to make changes in parc ferme if Mercedes use the das during qualifying because it is possible to interpret the use of DAS as making a set up change during or after the qualifying session has started.

I don't think this issue is entirely finished.
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RZS10
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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The ruling fully accepted the DAS as a steering system so any incidental setup changes are similar to turning the wheel, they have no legal ground to stand on regarding parc fermé, especially since the ruling addresses those complaints.

Horner just repeated one of their claims from the protest:
"Alteration of the static toe angle on the front axle will also change the aerodynamic characteristics of an F1 car, typically performed in set‐up and prohibited in Parc Ferme. DAS operation, which is a front axle toe angle modifier, will have a measurable aerodynamic effect on the car, whether changing the trajectory or not."

which was thrown out by the stewards.
"The Stewards believe DAS is part of the Steering system, albeit not a conventional one. The key challenges to the legality of DAS rely on it not being part of the Steering system. If this were indeed the case, then it would be breaching the following Technical & Sporting Regulations: [...] 5. Article 34.6 of the Sporting Regulations: this forbids an adjustment of suspension in parc fermé. It is, for example, not permitted to adjust the toe angle by mechanically adjusting the length of the steering arms during parc fermé. Clearly (again) steering is a de facto exception, and if DAS was not considered to be part of it then it would fall foul of this Article. [...] the Stewards consider DAS to be a legitimate part of the steering system and hence to satisfy the relevant regulations regarding suspension or aerodynamic influence. In the opinion of the Stewards, the DAS system is physically and functionally a part of the steering system. As such, it benefits of the implicit exceptions to certain suspension regulations applicable to steering."

Marko said that they accepted the verdict and will not appeal. Apparently the thing about changing the suspension geometry is a theoretical "this decision means we should be allowed to" since RBR thinks the FIA might have created a gray area there.
Last edited by RZS10 on Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

wesley123
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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nevill3 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:31 am
But then he said that they may ask to make changes in parc ferme if Mercedes use the das during qualifying because it is possible to interpret the use of DAS as making a set up change during or after the qualifying session has started.

I don't think this issue is entirely finished.
That argument is a bit moot as drivers can change engine maps, differential settings and brake balance from within the car.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

falonso81
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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I do not understand why it is deemed legal. It's a system integrated on the steering wheel, it's not the steering wheel. Going by that logic you can integrate/mount any device you can there as long as you can convince the stewards that it should be considered as one thing. This should get interesting later in the season.

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subcritical71
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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falonso81 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:20 pm
I do not understand why it is deemed legal. It's a system integrated on the steering wheel, it's not the steering wheel. Going by that logic you can integrate/mount any device you can there as long as you can convince the stewards that it should be considered as one thing. This should get interesting later in the season.
The decision considers the DAS as part of the steering system, as it moves only the steering linkage, the same function the normal steering wheel does. If you built into the same steering system a function that adjusts suspension member length they would rule that as illegal,

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El Scorchio
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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Is this still worth debating now it’s finally ruled legal?

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Holm86
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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falonso81 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:20 pm
I do not understand why it is deemed legal. It's a system integrated on the steering wheel, it's not the steering wheel. Going by that logic you can integrate/mount any device you can there as long as you can convince the stewards that it should be considered as one thing. This should get interesting later in the season.
You haven't read the regulations if you don't understand still.
Try and read them, and you will get an understanding of why it's legal, you can even read the updated 2021 regulations, to see how the new wording bans the system from 2021.

Nowhere in the current set of regulations are the steering wheel prohibited from moving axially, and nowhere is it said that the wheels have to move in the same direction from a steering input ...

DAS is just steering according to the current regulations

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Big Tea
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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Holm86 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:24 pm
falonso81 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:20 pm
I do not understand why it is deemed legal. It's a system integrated on the steering wheel, it's not the steering wheel. Going by that logic you can integrate/mount any device you can there as long as you can convince the stewards that it should be considered as one thing. This should get interesting later in the season.
You haven't read the regulations if you don't understand still.
Try and read them, and you will get an understanding of why it's legal, you can even read the updated 2021 regulations, to see how the new wording bans the system from 2021.

Nowhere in the current set of regulations are the steering wheel prohibited from moving axially, and nowhere is it said that the wheels have to move in the same direction from a steering input ...

DAS is just steering according to the current regulations
Yeh, the thinking seems that it it a case of it not being 'not legal' than actually being 'legal' according to the wording.
If they can not find a reason to ban it, it obviously becomes accepted.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

wesley123
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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falonso81 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:20 pm
It's a system integrated on the steering wheel, it's not the steering wheel.
And that is incorrect. It functions by the driver moving the wheel back and forth, so it IS the steering wheel.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

sosic2121
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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"10.2.3 No adjustment may be made to any suspension system while the car is in motion"

If this quote is true, I can't see how it can possibly be legal.

e30ernest
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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sosic2121 wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:52 am
"10.2.3 No adjustment may be made to any suspension system while the car is in motion"

If this quote is true, I can't see how it can possibly be legal.
That doesn't apply because DAS was considered as part of the steering, which has its own set of rules. Read the stewards' decision on Red Bull's protest.