On board engine starter

[vyselegend]

I present my sincere excuses if the subject has already been adressed (which is likely), but I'm suddently thinking about the changes induced by the KERS implementation.

Now that the cars will have to deal with the weight of embarked recovery systems, batteries and are able to transmit electric energy back to engine, will they have a starter?

Or is there a rule banning it? I think it would be great if a driver having stalled after a little contact with no damages or a spin (which happens quite often during a season) could just resume the race, by restarting the engine himself...

The forum is quite unstable these days so I jump on the occasion to post my question, admiting that I've not really searched for any precedent discussion on that matter , because I'm afraid to land on the "the forum is temporarly unaccessible" thing if I start to browse too much. If that is the case, please redirect me to that topic. Thanks.

EDIT: ok, now the forum is going better so I have searched more, and found the question have been evoked by pipex on this topic (last post of page 17):

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3619&hilit=engine+starter

But it doesn't seems to have been discussed much more...

[WhiteBlue]

I can imagine that KERS can be used for the purpose. In the particular case of the race start I do not anticipate that it would be benficial to use stored energy that you want to use for acceleration. So they will probably still use a mechanical starter. I terms of emergency start out on track it could be usefull.

[Conceptual]

I can imagine that KERS can be used for the purpose. In the particular case of the race start I do not anticipate that it would be benficial to use stored energy that you want to use for acceleration. So they will probably still use a mechanical starter. I terms of emergency start out on track it could be usefull.

I bet Bourdais would have KILLED to use it at Monza last year....

I like the idea of the KERS being used as an emergency starter. The spectacle isnt made better by people stalling on the parade lap...

[vyselegend]

Indeed. The Bourdais Monza case is a good exemple of the problem, though I think it was a gearbox glitch, and probably restarting the engine would'nt suffice if the car is locked in gear two for instance...

But to some extent, it's not even just a case of the engine stalling, such restart possibility could help in countless types of malfunctions. Remember Oz GP 2006, Montoya took a kerb too agressively (or maybe even touched the wall slightly), and though the car suffered no damages, the engine electronics kicked the "safe mode" in, ending the race, while a restart of all sytems would have allowed to resume the fight in a point scoring position...

The more I think about it, the more obvious it seems:
Less stupid retirements = more exiting racing.

I'm really looking forward to it. Hope it will soon become clear that all teams opted for that on board starter solution...

[shir0]

AFAIK, there's nothing in the 2008 & 2009 tech regs prohibiting the installation of an onboard starter. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen any thing in Tech/Sporting regs which specifically allows it either. Following that logic I'm assuming that it should be legal.

What's interesting is that I have read somewhere that a Formula 1 car is supposed to be "mandated" to have a self-starting engine. I just can't remember where I've read that (maybe Formula1.com?). Also, there is something about in the Sporting regs about using a "starter", which is differentiated against an "external starter". Here it is...

30.10 During a race, the engine may only be started with the starter except in the pit lane or the team’s
designated garage area where the use of an external starting device is allowed.

[xpensive]

Once upon a time, not thaaat long ago, F1 cars had both starter-motors and a conventional battery to support it.

[donskar]

Once upon a time, not thaaat long ago, F1 cars had both starter-motors and a conventional battery to support it.

Stop it! I'm having a nostalgia attack: little black battery hung on the back of the diff in a little tubular cage. Gearbox, battery, most of the engine -- exposed for all to see.

[xpensive]

Not to forget the visible gear-selector on the Hewland-box...

[ISLAMATRON]

No need for a starter motor, just use the KERS to initiate some speed(80HP should be enough to get her moving) and bump start the motor.

[Ciro Pabón]

I deleted some off-thread posts.

Please, if I hear again the acronym I don't want to mention (it starts by ESE and ends in RU), but no explanations accompanying it, I'm going to look for a deep, bottomless cliff. Do not ask me if I'm going to jump or I'm going to push someone off the edge!

On the other hand, I might not be able: I know a dozen guys that would jump (or would push) before I have the time to do so...

[Italiano]

I'd love that, being the pinnacle of motorsports and you can't even start an F1 without outside assistance. Hell, even a GP2 car can be push started.

Slightly more powerfull KERS, an ECU programme for when you stall it and want to restart and ofcourse a change in the rules.

First good idea I saw on this forum.

[Scotracer]

I deleted some off-thread posts.

Please, if I hear again the acronym I don't want to mention (it starts by ESE and ends in RU), but no explanations accompanying it, I'm going to look for a deep, bottomless cliff. Do not ask me if I'm going to jump or I'm going to push someone off the edge!

On the other hand, I might not be able: I know a dozen guys that would jump (or would push) before I have the time to do so...

Put the acronym in the curse filter!

[Richard]

30.10 During a race, the engine may only be started with the starter except in the pit lane or the team’s
designated garage area where the use of an external starting device is allowed.

SO that says an on-board starter can be used if you have one. However I imagine F1 teams conclude that the extra weight is more of a penalty. When did you last see an F1 car stop mid race purely because it had stalled?

Put it another way, why carry the equipment to deal with a stall, when the risk of a stall has been all but eliminated?

[Italiano]

If everyone use a standardised system, the weight penalty is the same for everyone. Problem solved.

[autogyro]

Stalling engines is not actualy the problem.
Getting beached in gravel is.
I have the answer to that as well, a flexible aerodynamic braking surface.