2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

[Phil]

The whole pushing a guy wide is illegal, has been illegal forever, there's some tolerance/gray area to it(and yes the same Albon squeezed Hamilton on lap 1) what there isn't is a "well he took the risk" addendum to the rules.
But it is illegal to push someone wide if the car is far enough alongside, otherwise you might as well forbid overtaking around the outside.

Hamilton decided to wait, Albon went for it, and i think a penalty was fair, doesn't help Albon but what you're gonna do...

It’s a moot point Sevach. Albon should have given a bit more room just as Hamilton did and backed out on the 1st lap. If he had, the results would have been different. As it stands, Hamilton finished 4th while Albon with zero points. So much about who had more to lose and gain.

It sucks, because in the end, both drivers deserved more today. Albon didnt deserve to finish without points (well in a way he did, because he initiated the move that put his car in a risky position and caused him to spin...) and Hamilton didnt deserve to finish 4th like this. Either way, Albon will learn from this and make him a better driver. He’ll need to be, if he wants to keep his drive.

I don't agree with that for a single second.
Mistake was on Hamilton and he paid the fair price(it wasn't a huge mistake or dirty, just a small one).

I find it amusing that you think it was Hamilton who made a mistake, given he was the one at maximum lock and committed to that line, while Albon was in the car with the better tires taking a wider line through that corner and did have the option to yield out or at the very least not turn into Hamilton and not cause the incident.

From the two drivers who were part of this incident, only one could have done something differently (unless you think Hamilton should have parked his car before the corner and wave Albon by...)...

[Mattyw]

The whole pushing a guy wide is illegal, has been illegal forever, there's some tolerance/gray area to it(and yes the same Albon squeezed Hamilton on lap 1) what there isn't is a "well he took the risk" addendum to the rules.
But it is illegal to push someone wide if the car is far enough alongside, otherwise you might as well forbid overtaking around the outside.

Hamilton decided to wait, Albon went for it, and i think a penalty was fair, doesn't help Albon but what you're gonna do...

It’s a moot point Sevach. Albon should have given a bit more room just as Hamilton did and backed out on the 1st lap. If he had, the results would have been different. As it stands, Hamilton finished 4th while Albon with zero points. So much about who had more to lose and gain.

It sucks, because in the end, both drivers deserved more today. Albon didnt deserve to finish without points (well in a way he did, because he initiated the move that put his car in a risky position and caused him to spin...) and Hamilton didnt deserve to finish 4th like this. Either way, Albon will learn from this and make him a better driver. He’ll need to be, if he wants to keep his drive.

I don't agree with that for a single second.
Mistake was on Hamilton and he paid the fair price(it wasn't a huge mistake or dirty, just a small one).

If anyone made a mistake it was Albon, could’ve moved to the left and avoided it entirely.

I think you are forgetting Albon simply got better drive out of the corner, his tyre hit Hamilton’s, nothing else.

Should’ve simply been exactly that, a racing incident.

[sprint car76]

When it's hamilton those don't count. Remember hungary last year when hamilton was on the outside of verstappen at about the mid point of the race. Hamilton knew verstappen was going to use all the track and he went off track to avoid him. Albon needs to understand more how the car inside of him is going to react.

[Wynters]

I don't agree with that for a single second.
Mistake was on Hamilton and he paid the fair price(it wasn't a huge mistake or dirty, just a small one).

There was still space for Albon. Hamilton did not hit him, instead their wheels overlapped and Albon's faster car hit Hamilton's slower car. If Albon had been six inches to the left, he would still have had all four wheels on the track and would've accelerated past Hamilton.

Suppose Albon turned even more tightly? At what point does Albon have to stop squeezing the inside?

What you are essentially saying is that the guy on the outside is allowed to dictate the line of the corner for both drivers and that has never been true. Feel free to quote the rule if you feel I'm incorrect.

[Wynters]

I assume Norris didn't get a penalty for punting Perez out of the way, despite being behind through the whole corner? If he didn't, does someone want to explain exactly what the rule is?

[Moore77]

It’s a moot point Sevach. Albon should have given a bit more room just as Hamilton did and backed out on the 1st lap. If he had, the results would have been different. As it stands, Hamilton finished 4th while Albon with zero points. So much about who had more to lose and gain.

It sucks, because in the end, both drivers deserved more today. Albon didnt deserve to finish without points (well in a way he did, because he initiated the move that put his car in a risky position and caused him to spin...) and Hamilton didnt deserve to finish 4th like this. Either way, Albon will learn from this and make him a better driver. He’ll need to be, if he wants to keep his drive.

I don't agree with that for a single second.
Mistake was on Hamilton and he paid the fair price(it wasn't a huge mistake or dirty, just a small one).

If anyone made a mistake it was Albon, could’ve moved to the left and avoided it entirely.

I think you are forgetting Albon simply got better drive out of the corner, his tyre hit Hamilton’s, nothing else.

Should’ve simply been exactly that, a racing incident.

He has done that mistake last year in Monza, trying to overtake Sainz from the outside and went on grass and lost position.

It's a corner where cars understeer a whole lot. Hamilton's onboard shows a complete steering lock towards right, yet the car was understeering to the left, which is very natural for that corner. It was overzealous of Albon to think that he can overtake there.

[Mchamilton]

Its time for a change of guard. The likes of Vettel and Hamilton are past it, full of misjudgement and errors. The new blood from F2 know how to race side by side with respect. Also they don't need the artificial DRS to overtake.

Ha what planet are you on? Lewis makes the least mistakes of any driver on the grid, anybody who watches the races properly would agree.

[Sevach]

I find it amusing that you think it was Hamilton who made a mistake, given he was the one at maximum lock and committed to that line, while Albon was in the car with the better tires taking a wider line through that corner and did have the option to yield out or at the very least not turn into Hamilton and not cause the incident.

From the two drivers who were part of this incident, only one could have done something differently (unless you think Hamilton should have parked his car before the corner and wave Albon by...)...

If the guy miscalculates and runs wide it's still his mistake.
Also turn in on Hamilton, really? Really?
"Trajectory matters", Albon is committed to a trajectory that is gonna take him to the edges of the track, Hamilton is the one sliding wide and is gonna run into the car alongside him, there's no "he took the risk", "should've waited for the next lap", section on the rules, it's a clear penalty.



Similarly, though much more brutal, the Red Bull is holding a line that is gonna take it to the edges of the track while the other driver has a trajectory that is pushing them wide.
Neither Max or Alex turned into anyone despite the fact that there's still room to their left, the other guy slid into their trajectory.


Well... from your perspective on aggressive moves, Hamilton should've waved him bye after all he had a much faster car and it was gonna happen sooner or later right... or is that just for the guy trying to overtake? The defender can do whatever he wants...

[Sevach]

I don't agree with that for a single second.
Mistake was on Hamilton and he paid the fair price(it wasn't a huge mistake or dirty, just a small one).

There was still space for Albon. Hamilton did not hit him, instead their wheels overlapped and Albon's faster car hit Hamilton's slower car. If Albon had been six inches to the left, he would still have had all four wheels on the track and would've accelerated past Hamilton.

Suppose Albon turned even more tightly? At what point does Albon have to stop squeezing the inside?

What you are essentially saying is that the guy on the outside is allowed to dictate the line of the corner for both drivers and that has never been true. Feel free to quote the rule if you feel I'm incorrect.

Albon was still in the corner, he can't be hugging the edges of the track while cornering, his trajectory was gonna take him to the edges, totally normal, Hamilton needed a tighter line he invaded the other guys trajectory.

I showed a Max-Leclerc video on the previous post and you can see how much space to his left Max at the moment of impact, the accident is still on Leclerc because he is the one invading the other guys trajectory.

[TNTHead]

The reasoning in the race threads seems to be solely based on which driver is your favourite... many HAM support here. For the F1 lover less connected to one driver or team thats a bit annoying. I hoped that a technical should be more about the sport and less about who's driver is perfect and all else is poor.

Nice race with lots of action, although a bit artificial with so many SC's. Looks like this season reliability might be a decisive factor. Nice to see that the midfield has finally caught up some of the top 3 (at least for the moment).

[Sevach]

Also, why he had to do it then and there, "he could've waited".

Albon wanted Bottas not Hamilton, Hamilton was a step in the way, if he waits 2 more laps for DRS, then gets into a fight, Bottas opens up, softs lose the super duper extra grip or maybe Hamilton forms a DRS train with Bottas, nothing guaranteed.

[McMika98]

Its time for a change of guard. The likes of Vettel and Hamilton are past it, full of misjudgement and errors. The new blood from F2 know how to race side by side with respect. Also they don't need the artificial DRS to overtake.

Ha what planet are you on? Lewis makes the least mistakes of any driver on the grid, anybody who watches the races properly would agree.

The luxury of having the fastest car in the field, if there was a GDP equivalent of metric where the driver error is judged based on the relative speed of the car he will be average. Bottas isn't a measuring stick, Rosberg who prolly isn't in the same level brought those into light.

Its just inconceivable to think people would blame Albon for today. Yet they seem to be in majority. The fans have been sanitised by the procession of races in the Hamilton era. Ballsy moves such as Albon overtaking on the outside is deemed inexperienced even though he had full control of the car throughout. Also dont get the he should wait for DRS overtake argument. Albon has overtaken cars in the grass and chicane. If he was side by side he would have gone to the extreme of the kerb to get the move, he didn't need to this time as he was already in front as the corner opened.

[Phil]

Sevach, i have no idea what you are arguing here. I was never the guy to say that the defender can do everything and get away with it. For example, if Hamilton had purposely let his car drift towards the outside by releasing his steering wheel or did a Rosberg, my opinion would be very different. As it is however and judging by the onboards, Hamilton did everything possible to keep his line and not collide while the car on the outside with superior tires and grip AND ability to take a slightly wider line (aka leave more space) did not.

It’s a pity how such a good maneuver gets ruined by the excessive debate how who left a bit more space or didnt. In the end, it was a good example of “racing incident”, no penalty required. Quite frankly, we want more racing, less micro managing. Hamilton was no more wrong for using his line than Albon was entitled to take a risk around the outside. Why can’t we just leave it at that? (Points finger at the stewards for giving a pointless punishment).

If anything, i hate the inconsistency. I dont even care about what happened at another race under the supervision of different stewards, but if Hamilton gets a 5s for THAT, where is Albons for the race 1 incident? Norris? Etc etc etc.

I fricking well expect more from F1.

[Scorpaguy]

Austria 2020...was that NASCAR?

Seems we do not need multi-million dollar rule changes and the sort to bring the competition closer together....just do what NASCAR does and throw a caution/safety car to bunch them back up routinely. So I am now adding a third red-neck fix to remedy F1's lack of action:

1. Increase HP
2. Decrease traction
3. Safety Car every 10 laps

As for Hamilton/Albon...the in-forum banter is almost as entertaining as was the on-track incident. Thank God F1 is back...thank Satan for F1TV. Sheesh

[foxmulder_ms]

5sec penalty to HAM is a travesty. It is was a clear racing incident. It is unfair but whatever.. HAM always returns stronger.