2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

[Zynerji]

There will be war at Mercedes now, I get the distinct feeling Bottas was intentionally trying to slow Lews down the last 2 or 3 laps.

See Lewis playbook: Abu Dhabi 2016

[Zynerji]

It’s a moot point Sevach. Albon should have given a bit more room just as Hamilton did and backed out on the 1st lap. If he had, the results would have been different. As it stands, Hamilton finished 4th while Albon with zero points. So much about who had more to lose and gain.

It sucks, because in the end, both drivers deserved more today. Albon didnt deserve to finish without points (well in a way he did, because he initiated the move that put his car in a risky position and caused him to spin...) and Hamilton didnt deserve to finish 4th like this. Either way, Albon will learn from this and make him a better driver. He’ll need to be, if he wants to keep his drive.

I don't agree with that for a single second.
Mistake was on Hamilton and he paid the fair price(it wasn't a huge mistake or dirty, just a small one).

I find it amusing that you think it was Hamilton who made a mistake, given he was the one at maximum lock and committed to that line, while Albon was in the car with the better tires taking a wider line through that corner and did have the option to yield out or at the very least not turn into Hamilton and not cause the incident.

From the two drivers who were part of this incident, only one could have done something differently (unless you think Hamilton should have parked his car before the corner and wave Albon by...)...

He still had a brake pedal...

[matt_b]

So once it becomes available, Mercedes can protest and get it overturned. Sorted.

I think with the a race next weekend its probably best to accept that sometimes decisions go your way other times they go against you and move on, no point the team or Lewis wasting energy over it. He had the better race pace, just needs to find time in qualifying for next weekend particularly in sector two.

[basti313]

I don't agree with that for a single second.
Mistake was on Hamilton and he paid the fair price(it wasn't a huge mistake or dirty, just a small one).

I find it amusing that you think it was Hamilton who made a mistake, given he was the one at maximum lock and committed to that line, while Albon was in the car with the better tires taking a wider line through that corner and did have the option to yield out or at the very least not turn into Hamilton and not cause the incident.

From the two drivers who were part of this incident, only one could have done something differently (unless you think Hamilton should have parked his car before the corner and wave Albon by...)...

He still had a brake pedal...

Well...yes...but does it matter? In every racing series in the world you get a drive through for kicking the others rear wheel. In some like DTM, where Mercedes played a big role 2 years ago, the rule is so hard enforced, that once you turn the car in front, you can directly drive through the pits in this very same lap.
We have a bit of a strange rule discussion in F1 since Rosberg was driving unfair against Hamilton. At this time it would have been clearly Rosbergs fault as you do not hang around on the outside. So clearly Albons fault...

[wesley123]

There will be war at Mercedes now, I get the distinct feeling Bottas was intentionally trying to slow Lews down the last 2 or 3 laps.

Good on him to be honest. Bottas had been way too nice the past few years.

[SparkyAMG]

I don't agree with that for a single second.
Mistake was on Hamilton and he paid the fair price(it wasn't a huge mistake or dirty, just a small one).

I find it amusing that you think it was Hamilton who made a mistake, given he was the one at maximum lock and committed to that line, while Albon was in the car with the better tires taking a wider line through that corner and did have the option to yield out or at the very least not turn into Hamilton and not cause the incident.

From the two drivers who were part of this incident, only one could have done something differently (unless you think Hamilton should have parked his car before the corner and wave Albon by...)...

He still had a brake pedal...

The pass happened mid-corner, at which point Hamilton's trajectory had been locked in since turn in. The point at which Albon gets the better exit and goes past is the critical moment because he straightens up early with the grip he has available and makes a collision unavoidable given that the two paths are now going to converge.

It was a racing incident from my point of view, although I think Albon showed a bit of inexperience in getting so close to Hamilton given he was on worn hard tyres... He then compounded that by assuming the move was done (which it would have been) and took his eye off Hamilton's car to look at Bottas when he could have just opened his own steering to give himself the extra half a meter he needed.

So, harsh on Hamilton but it is what it is now and will hopefully add a bit of spice to the season.

[Wynters]

He still had a brake pedal...

Given the contact was caused because Albon's car was travelling faster than Hamilton's and the wheels were interlocked...how does Hamilton slowing the car even further help (other than make the relative force of the impact even worse)?

[Racer X]

I don't think Norris will get a penalty the move with Perez was basically due to Pere taking the racing line and Norris being in a position where he couldn't really give any more room.

It's just a racing incident.

I agree. But I thought Albon/Hamilton was too and, apparently, if you are on the inside and behind at the point of contact then it's a 5 second penalty. At least Hamilton was ahead going into the corner, Norris wasn't even that.

Well I mean Perez got a penalty of his own. So it doesn't help Perez but. What ended up being the verdict? Did it get called a racing incident.

[AMG.Tzan]

There will be war at Mercedes now, I get the distinct feeling Bottas was intentionally trying to slow Lews down the last 2 or 3 laps.

See Lewis playbook: Abu Dhabi 2016

I had that feeling too! Where did Bottas lose 2 seconds instantly?? They didn't show us any mistake by him and i instantly thought that he did it on purpose to slow down Lewis!

Interesting...

[Wynters]

Albon was still in the corner, he can't be hugging the edges of the track while cornering, his trajectory was gonna take him to the edges, totally normal, Hamilton needed a tighter line he invaded the other guys trajectory.

I showed a Max-Leclerc video on the previous post and you can see how much space to his left Max at the moment of impact, the accident is still on Leclerc because he is the one invading the other guys trajectory.

Ok, I see what you are saying. I think there's a lot to the 'stay in your lane' line of thinking.

But I think it needs to be clear who dictates lanes and, as a result, I think your comparison is not ideal.

Unlike Leclerc, Hamilton doesn't leave the line of the corner (you can see that Leclerc looks to veer across the track from the following car's perspective). If you watch Hamilton's onboard, he applies more lock as he leaves the apex of the corner and there's no visible sign of the front sliding across the track. Albon didn't need to hug the track edge, he just needed to not choose a trajectory that intersected with the car in front (one whose trajectory was bending even further inwards). Furthermore, Hamilton didn't hit Albon. There was no side-to-side contact. The contact was front-to-back as the interlocked wheels over ran each other. If they had maintained the same relative speed, they don't contact.

I suppose a question to consider is, if Albon (which much grippier tyres) turned even more tightly after the apex, how far over to the right does Hamilton need to go? Or does Albon's lane have to account for Hamilton's trajectory?

Would you agree that, to be consistent with your view, Verstappen should have been penalised last year and Norris this year for the same 'chose a trajectory that intersected with the other car'?

[Wynters]

I think with the a race next weekend its probably best to accept that sometimes decisions go your way other times they go against you and move on, no point the team or Lewis wasting energy over it. He had the better race pace, just needs to find time in qualifying for next weekend particularly in sector two.

If only it was that simple. The problem is what rules are people racing with?

If you are on the inside, behind and drive into another car, punting them out of the way, that's fine (see Norris/Perez). So now we know the car ahead at all points and on the outside needs to leave space and the car on the inside and behind dictates the lines both cars can take.
- The car inside, behind, dictates lines and gets space. Can punt the other car out of the way.

If you are behind and dive down the inside and only get level, that's your corner and you can push the other car entirely off the track (see Verstappen/Leclerc). So now we know that the car on the outside needs to leave space, even if it was never behind, and the car on the inside doesn't. So the car on the inside dictates the line both cars can take.
-The car inside, level, dictates lines and gets space. Doesn't need to leave any space and can punt the other car out of the way.

If you are ahead and on the inside but the other car goes around the outside and is faster (but not ahead until after lines are decided), the car on the inside has to leave space and the car on the outside doesn't (Albon/Hamilton.
- The car outside, behind until the apex, dictates lines and gets space. Doesn't need to leave space. Driving into inside car is acceptable.

So, which is it? Next week, which cars get punished for what?

Every other racing weekend the Steward's make an obviously inconsistent decision. Pushing cars off in the braking zone is fine / moving in the braking zone is fine / pushing cars off on the exit of corners is fine / Punting people out of the way is fine / not slowing for yellows is fine / driving off then reversing back onto the track is fine / deliberately ramming other cars under SC conditions is fine until we can find an excuse to penalise the other WDC contender / Overtaking with all four wheels off the track is fine / This offense gets a 10 second penalty if you aren't the lead three constructors, if you are you get no penalty / Track limits apply / Track limits don't apply / Track limits apply on these corners on the 3rd Saturday of every month beginning with 'A' / Track limits apply but you can be over them as long as the shadow of your tyre touches the outside of the paint /etc /etc /etc.

Either Steward consistently or don't bother at all because, right now, the whole thing looks like WWE and, depressingly, has done for quite a while.

[El Scorchio]

I think with the a race next weekend its probably best to accept that sometimes decisions go your way other times they go against you and move on, no point the team or Lewis wasting energy over it. He had the better race pace, just needs to find time in qualifying for next weekend particularly in sector two.

If only it was that simple. The problem is what rules are people racing with?

If you are on the inside, behind and drive into another car, punting them out of the way, that's fine (see Norris/Perez). So now we know the car ahead at all points and on the outside needs to leave space and the car on the inside and behind dictates the lines both cars can take.
- The car inside, behind, dictates lines and gets space. Can punt the other car out of the way.

If you are behind and dive down the inside and only get level, that's your corner and you can push the other car entirely off the track (see Verstappen/Leclerc). So now we know that the car on the outside needs to leave space, even if it was never behind, and the car on the inside doesn't. So the car on the inside dictates the line both cars can take.
-The car inside, level, dictates lines and gets space. Doesn't need to leave any space and can punt the other car out of the way.

If you are ahead and on the inside but the other car goes around the outside and is faster (but not ahead until after lines are decided), the car on the inside has to leave space and the car on the outside doesn't (Albon/Hamilton.
- The car outside, behind until the apex, dictates lines and gets space. Doesn't need to leave space. Driving into inside car is acceptable.

So, which is it? Next week, which cars get punished for what?

Every other racing weekend the Steward's make an obviously inconsistent decision. Pushing cars off in the braking zone is fine / moving in the braking zone is fine / pushing cars off on the exit of corners is fine / Punting people out of the way is fine / not slowing for yellows is fine / driving off then reversing back onto the track is fine / deliberately ramming other cars under SC conditions is fine until we can find an excuse to penalise the other WDC contender / Overtaking with all four wheels off the track is fine / This offense gets a 10 second penalty if you aren't the lead three constructors, if you are you get no penalty / Track limits apply / Track limits don't apply / Track limits apply on these corners on the 3rd Saturday of every month beginning with 'A' / Track limits apply but you can be over them as long as the shadow of your tyre touches the outside of the paint /etc /etc /etc.

Either Steward consistently or don't bother at all because, right now, the whole thing looks like WWE and, depressingly, has done for quite a while.

Depressingly accurate. The goalposts move every time and it's a complete lottery as to whether any given driver at any given time gets punished. This week it's Hamilton who has been essentially screwed, next time it'll probably be someone else. Next week someone else will probably get away penalty free for doing exactly as Hamilton did (or didn't) today. Next week someone will probably get penalised for something that wasn't penalised today.

It's farcical.

[oT v1]

So happy for Lando! Become a huge fan of his watching him stream/engage during lockdown.

Crazy race....

[SF Engineer]

Basically the entire thread is focused on the HAM/ALB incident. I have my own opinion on that, but adding to the commentary won’t change anything so I will refrain.

It was nice to have F1 back, here are a couple of topics that stood out to me:

1. Engine/sensor failures for Merc, Honda and Renault. Obviously Honda’s issues hurt their top team the most - I hope for the sake of entertainment in this week’s race they can sort it quickly.

It makes me wonder, did the removal of the sausage curbs (on I forget which corner) lead to the cars taking a line which put them on curbing they had not experienced in previous years, leading to unforeseen loading frequencies being seen?

2. As was the case in Brazil in 2019 (with BOT) I don’t think there was a need (from a safety standpoint) to call an SC for RUS when he parked up on where he did. Slightly more controversial perhaps would be my opinion that a VSC would have sufficed for MAG’s incident (it was in an area more prone to cars going off, but also seemingly could have been cleared up under a VSC without issue).

For me this is a bit of a disturbing, but inevitable trend. It is a way for the powers that be to engineer interesting races via strategic use of the SC. It makes for interesting battles and results, especially at the end of races, which lead to good viewing figures - but I can’t help but feel that it is disingenuous to the sport; call me a purist...

3. Happy for NOR, that was one hell of a last lap and a well deserving result. McLaren look to have good pace overall too - which will make things more interesting in future races (especially when considering Racing Point also has pace, and the contents of point (2) above).

[langedweil]

A pity there's so much whining about Alb/Ham ...
I just feel gutted for RB's 0 points, but was happy to see a midfield taking nips at the front and next to equal midfield.
I do not fancy Renault in any way, but it was good to somehow see them fighting upfront.
McL's are doing great, imagine this car with a Merc PU.
Saw some great racing, let's hope for more ...