DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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Holm86
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:00 pm
Holm86 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:51 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:30 pm


Changing suspension/steering angles between quali and race?
So you're not allowed to steer the car??
:D There's always one.
Theres also those who keep babbling on about it being illegal, when both FIA and stewards has deemed it legal.

Steering is basically "move the steering wheel to move the angle of the tires" and DAS does not contravene with that.

Nowhere does it say that the steering wheel can only move in one axis, and nowhere does it say that the wheels have to move in the same direction under steering.

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subcritical71
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:00 pm
Holm86 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:51 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:30 pm


Changing suspension/steering angles between quali and race?
So you're not allowed to steer the car??
:D There's always one.
But isn't that the point? In the FIA decision they already covered the parc fermé concern. The system is deemed as only moving the steering linkages the same physical concept as the typical steering wheel would do. No suspension members are being 'adjusted'. The only steering changes that are being made are via the steering wheel with driver (crew) input, same as the rest of the cars in parc fermé.

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Big Tea
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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subcritical71 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:59 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:00 pm
Holm86 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:51 pm


So you're not allowed to steer the car??
:D There's always one.
But isn't that the point? In the FIA decision they already covered the parc fermé concern. The system is deemed as only moving the steering linkages the same physical concept as the typical steering wheel would do. No suspension members are being 'adjusted'. The only steering changes that are being made are via the steering wheel with driver (crew) input, same as the rest of the cars in parc fermé.
and Holm86
I do not disagree, I answered the question 'What aspect of parc ferme can they play with?' which I assume Horner was thinking of getting the same result. Not legal, but they can ask for.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

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subcritical71
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:46 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:59 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:00 pm


:D There's always one.
But isn't that the point? In the FIA decision they already covered the parc fermé concern. The system is deemed as only moving the steering linkages the same physical concept as the typical steering wheel would do. No suspension members are being 'adjusted'. The only steering changes that are being made are via the steering wheel with driver (crew) input, same as the rest of the cars in parc fermé.
and Holm86
I do not disagree, I answered the question 'What aspect of parc ferme can they play with?' which I assume Horner was thinking of getting the same result. Not legal, but they can ask for.
#-o ... thanks for the clarification! Some reports have the Merc camp becoming a bit peeved at the protesting that RB is carrying out so far. They seemed happy with the proactive protest to DAS (after free practice vs. after the race) but then things went downhill from there. Should be an interesting season if everyone starts protesting everyone else.

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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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subcritical71 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:53 pm

#-o ... thanks for the clarification! Some reports have the Merc camp becoming a bit peeved at the protesting that RB is carrying out so far. They seemed happy with the proactive protest to DAS (after free practice vs. after the race) but then things went downhill from there. Should be an interesting season if everyone starts protesting everyone else.
RedBull playing mind games with Mercedes. I take the view that this is an indication that they're not confident of beating them on track over the whole season in a straight fight.
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Big Tea
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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subcritical71 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:53 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:46 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:59 pm


But isn't that the point? In the FIA decision they already covered the parc fermé concern. The system is deemed as only moving the steering linkages the same physical concept as the typical steering wheel would do. No suspension members are being 'adjusted'. The only steering changes that are being made are via the steering wheel with driver (crew) input, same as the rest of the cars in parc fermé.
and Holm86
I do not disagree, I answered the question 'What aspect of parc ferme can they play with?' which I assume Horner was thinking of getting the same result. Not legal, but they can ask for.
#-o ... thanks for the clarification! Some reports have the Merc camp becoming a bit peeved at the protesting that RB is carrying out so far. They seemed happy with the proactive protest to DAS (after free practice vs. after the race) but then things went downhill from there. Should be an interesting season if everyone starts protesting everyone else.
TBH, I would think merc are happy that someone has asked for clarification as it is no longer hanging over them and they can count on it for the season. If they would have picked this week end if they had the choice though I don't know as it would be one of the worse options, but it had to come some time.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

63l8qrrfy6
63l8qrrfy6
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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Brushing aside the legality debate, I feel like any features that add new dimensions to driver input are good for the sport.

IMHO the more the driver has to do in the cockpit the higher the skill required and is also more entertaining to watch.

I really struggle with some of the 'no place for DAS in F1' comments from some (I think that was Paul di Resta)

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Holm86
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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Mudflap wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:12 am
Brushing aside the legality debate, I feel like any features that add new dimensions to driver input are good for the sport.

IMHO the more the driver has to do in the cockpit the higher the skill required and is also more entertaining to watch.

I really struggle with some of the 'no place for DAS in F1' comments from some (I think that was Paul di Resta)
I agree, although im not a fan of the pit telling them how to operate it, like the message for Bottas "keep using DAS, we need 10 more degrees"

I don't know if it's allowed, but they could just use the same IR sensor feed the pit recieves, and show it on the steering wheel display, so the driver knew what temperature the front tires are ...

63l8qrrfy6
63l8qrrfy6
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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Fair enough, but then again they also get told how to change gears, cool the car, lift and coast etc.

Tzk
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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Holm86 wrote:
I don't know if it's allowed, but they could just use the same IR sensor feed the pit recieves, and show it on the steering wheel display, so the driver knew what temperature the front tires are ...
Afaik the driver already has a display of the tyre temps. At least he can switch his dashboard to show it. i guess this is based in a sensor mounted on the wheel, they have a pressure sensor mounted anyways...

However those sensors won‘t show the surface temp, thats what the ir sensor is used for.

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nevill3
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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Well the end of the season and the end of DAS, Ted Kravitz has given a detailed explanation of how Mercedes adjusted the toe using hydraulics....watch the video below (from about 6.30)



Was the DAS system a game changer or just a gimmick.......
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henry
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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nevill3 wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:49 pm
Well the end of the season and the end of DAS, Ted Kravitz has given a detailed explanation of how Mercedes adjusted the toe using hydraulics....watch the video below (from about 6.30)

https://youtu.be/RuAKQNb1zw0?t=393

Was the DAS system a game changer or just a gimmick.......
My understanding is that the toe is adjusted by a lever mechanism with the hydraulics provide a source of means to affect that change. I still have a suspicion that DAS is one of two means to adjust the toe, the other being automatic dependant on steering angle. I believe this because they had such a mechanism a couple of years ago and the 2021 regulations have specific wording to outlaw this as well as DAS.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

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DAS was a good run for the technology. Thank God DAS whole fiasco is now laid to rest. Yep, it was legal, tested, used in all the races but a couple, paid off in tyre warm-up during Formation laps, SC and VC. Well worth it.

I would say DAS a wrap then!
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