2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Sieper
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Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 15:19

Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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dans79 wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 14:58
Sieper wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 14:22
I would like to ask here how the moderators feel about that. Is that allowed, condoned, Is it okay to do? I really, really hate to be belittled and it happens every time.
Just like in the real world, people can say just about anything, as long as they aren't openly/directly hostile, caveats exist of course.
Maybe we can, but should we really want to. Let’s try not to, also from my side, even when just in reply. In fact, I have several on the ignore list (not you by the way) already but still I make the mistake of opening those replies anyway.

It still keeps hurting. I feel Hamilton is at the very top but every time I place a comment that is not 100% praise, bam, I am an idiot.

In this race I think Hamilton made that move to defend so hard on purpose. I can even understand, he was just trying to the limit to defend his position and maybe hoped for a win and otherwise a P2. All else is just filling in based on the hindsight of what happened later.

In fact, we will see much more of these punishment I am sure. Next time another driver will be on the receiving end.

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ispano6
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Joined: 09 Mar 2017, 23:56
Location: my playseat

Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Sieper wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 15:36
dans79 wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 14:58
Sieper wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 14:22
I would like to ask here how the moderators feel about that. Is that allowed, condoned, Is it okay to do? I really, really hate to be belittled and it happens every time.
Just like in the real world, people can say just about anything, as long as they aren't openly/directly hostile, caveats exist of course.
Maybe we can, but should we really want to. Let’s try not to, also from my side, even when just in reply. In fact, I have several on the ignore list (not you by the way) already but still I make the mistake of opening those replies anyway.

It still keeps hurting. I feel Hamilton is at the very top but every time I place a comment that is not 100% praise, bam, I am an idiot.

In this race I think Hamilton made that move to defend so hard on purpose. I can even understand, he was just trying to the limit to defend his position and maybe hoped for a win and otherwise a P2. All else is just filling in based on the hindsight of what happened later.

In fact, we will see much more of these punishment I am sure. Next time another driver will be on the receiving end.
Don't worry, your opinion is granted and not wrong either. I would not be surprised if Ham suffers a DNF from a racing incident this year. Ham tried to get away with not lifting during yellow. Albon lifted after passing Perez while Perez did not. Pattern here is the veterans have experience and think they can bend the rules but a watchful eye will keep them in check. It's unfortunate that RedBull had to lodge protest and that the FIA and stewards did not fault Ham with their own evidence. It's clear Mercedes is trying to get away with things so that they can keep their advantage. Fair or not, Wolffe saying it's gloves off now and that they will scrutinize RB is a Fing joke. As champions have the decency of integrity FFS.

And let's not let anyone forget Bottas had no reason to push on the lap he caused the yellow. He knew that mowing the lawn would cause a sector yellow for everyone behind him. The rules should change that if you cause a yellow in qualifying that compromises their times, the driver causing the yellow gets their best time removed.

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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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I don’t think Bottas did it on purpose in Q3. He was close to a pit lane start there. His hands were shaking when he got out of the car. Bottas imho isn’t a very special driver. He can be fast on one lap if he gets it right but I have never after a race thought, wow that Bottas, fantastic.

It is indeed a bit weird that you can benefit from ruining your own lap, but would be hard to rule against unless it is blatantly obvious.

McMika98
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Joined: 18 Feb 2017, 22:40

Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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The narrative that its Lewis against every driver and he can't do no wrong or its someelse's fault is the sole reason that even though I started a massive Hamilton fan, i had to step back just to appreciate racing. Why do people bring Bottas holding back Lewis when he himself deliberately tried to slow Rosberg in the last race so he can get the glory.
The stuff he did during the Rosberg rivalry era was wreaked with bad loser mentality. Looking back the guy was first driver to post forbidden telemetry data on social media going back to Mclaren days just to show that he had a car issue to explain why he qualified behind his teammate. He clashed with all his teammates including Button who never had any issues previouslg or there after. He had a big hand in driving Rosberg to basically play the villain role even though it wasn't his style.
Ironically Max might have similar instinct but he has since mellowed and honed his craft. I guess challenging circumstances brings out he ugliness from anybody. But seriously Hamilton fans need to stop riding his proverbial and appreciate other talents, be it Bottas.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Button was a snake at McLaren.

In Abu Dhabi 2016 any driver with common sense will do everything in their power to win the WDC. Some use illegal means like MSC. And some play within the rules like HAM.

If Michael was in that race, he might have braked checked Rosberg or slammed him into the wall or some other underhanded tactic like running over his front wing.

Hamilton and Kimi are probably the two cleanest drivers on the grid today.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

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dans79
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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McMika98 wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 20:44
Why do people bring Bottas holding back Lewis when he himself deliberately tried to slow Rosberg in the last race so he can get the glory.
There is a big difference between the first race of an oddball season, and the last race of a season. Specially when your team already has the WCC wrapped up, And you and your teammate are the only drivers with a mathematical chance of finishing first and second in the WDC.
197 104 103 7

e30ernest
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Joined: 29 Feb 2012, 08:47

Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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McMika98 wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 20:44
Ironically Max might have similar instinct but he has since mellowed and honed his craft. I guess challenging circumstances brings out he ugliness from anybody. But seriously Hamilton fans need to stop riding his proverbial and appreciate other talents, be it Bottas.
I don't think Max has mellowed down at all. He just doesn't have a teammate to challenge him and his team just isn't at the level where it can win both driver's and contructor's championships. We can already see how aggressive Max can be if his car is capable of winning a race. I imagine he will be a lot more aggressive if he had the car to win an entire championship and he had a teammate who is close to his performance.
PlatinumZealot wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 23:56
Hamilton and Kimi are probably the two cleanest drivers on the grid today.
Yeah I agree with this. Abu Dhabi 2016 was fair play IMO. I will admit I was rooting for Rosberg that night. I never thought of Hamilton's actions there as foul.

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langedweil
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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e30ernest wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 06:40
langedweil wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 06:10
Lewis is only Lewis when he's way ahead into the distance, preferably 30 wdc points ahead, in car that is .5 of a second faster than any other car on the track.
The more things tighten up, the more the frustration levels rise, the more prone to error he becomes. Impossible to check, but would he have taken P2 in Lec's car ? I doubt it ...
Really? Apart from that one season where he was off his game due to personal issues, I've always thought of Lewis as among the best drivers out there when it comes to dealing with pressure. The past few years also saw him start the year on the back-foot, only to make things back up and eventually win.
Make no mistake, he IS one of the fastest and allrounded on the grid or even the last decades.
However, if pressure rises he gets just as annoyed, overly eager and prone to error as most other drivers. Makes him just human ..
Going from 20th to 2nd in a car that's 2s/lap faster in race-trim than the middle/back of the field (even without DRS) is less magical than it seems.
HuggaWugga !

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langedweil
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Unc1eM0nty wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 11:13
langedweil wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 06:10
Lewis is only Lewis when he's way ahead into the distance, preferably 30 wdc points ahead, in car that is .5 of a second faster than any other car on the track.
The more things tighten up, the more the frustration levels rise, the more prone to error he becomes. Impossible to check, but would he have taken P2 in Lec's car ? I doubt it ...
I have to disagree.

Lewis has driven some cars that were dogs as well, he's won races in every season he's competed in. It's usually when the
car is poor that he has the biggest gap to his teammates.
You're totally allowed to disagree!
It's just (or better, I'd say) that the godlike status is misplaced; he ain't no God .. he's very good, no God.
He would be if he'd win in an Alfa or Williams though.
HuggaWugga !

foxmulder_ms
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Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 20:36

Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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langedweil wrote:
09 Jul 2020, 06:30
Unc1eM0nty wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 11:13
langedweil wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 06:10
Lewis is only Lewis when he's way ahead into the distance, preferably 30 wdc points ahead, in car that is .5 of a second faster than any other car on the track.
The more things tighten up, the more the frustration levels rise, the more prone to error he becomes. Impossible to check, but would he have taken P2 in Lec's car ? I doubt it ...
I have to disagree.

Lewis has driven some cars that were dogs as well, he's won races in every season he's competed in. It's usually when the
car is poor that he has the biggest gap to his teammates.
You're totally allowed to disagree!
It's just (or better, I'd say) that the godlike status is misplaced; he ain't no God .. he's very good, no God.
He would be if he'd win in an Alfa or Williams though.
for practical purposes, there is no god anyway.. But HAM is F1 GOAT ;)

foxmulder_ms
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Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 20:36

Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 23:56


Hamilton and Kimi are probably the two cleanest drivers on the grid today.

Amen to that. 100% truth. It genuinely surprises me that these men even made it to F1 with how clean they drive...

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JRindt
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Joined: 17 Apr 2018, 14:16

Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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McMika98 wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 20:44
The narrative that its Lewis against every driver and he can't do no wrong or its someelse's fault is the sole reason that even though I started a massive Hamilton fan, i had to step back just to appreciate racing. Why do people bring Bottas holding back Lewis when he himself deliberately tried to slow Rosberg in the last race so he can get the glory.
The stuff he did during the Rosberg rivalry era was wreaked with bad loser mentality. Looking back the guy was first driver to post forbidden telemetry data on social media going back to Mclaren days just to show that he had a car issue to explain why he qualified behind his teammate. He clashed with all his teammates including Button who never had any issues previouslg or there after. He had a big hand in driving Rosberg to basically play the villain role even though it wasn't his style.
Ironically Max might have similar instinct but he has since mellowed and honed his craft. I guess challenging circumstances brings out he ugliness from anybody. But seriously Hamilton fans need to stop riding his proverbial and appreciate other talents, be it Bottas.

It’s the same with me. I started off as a massive Hamilton fan right from 2007 and ironically, the more he won, the less I liked him. He was such a bad loser and an even worse winner. I found his cap throw at Rosberg following the 2015 US GP as deeply apathetic towards the emotions Nico must be going through. Though I switched my allegiance to Rosberg in 2016, Lewis backing him up in Abu Dhabi was completely fair imo. He simply had to do whatever he can and I found Mercedes radio messages very annoying and unfair.

And Lol to those who say Hamilton is the fairest driver on the grid, along with Kimi. Sure, he ain’t dirty by any standard, but he ain’t the fairest of them all either. You just need to go back to pre 2016 to find how many times he pushed Nico off track, although Nico did his fair share of pushing too.

McMika98
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Joined: 18 Feb 2017, 22:40

Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Wow finally someone who shares my sentiment. Hamilton isn't dirty but his antics when behind and not winning is that of a petulant child who won't accept someone beating him. Dont think the likes of Kimi or Vettel have that, even Alonso accepted his fate but always fought hard.
Most fans will side with Lewis but its got to a point that even pundits are afraid to criticise the current reigning champion. Only Palmers analysis so far absolutely nailed the reason for the crash which was that he actually dabs on the power at the Apex of the corner when Albon is slightly ahead which then causes the understeer. He didn't want to lose out to a rookie who would have made the pass look so easy. If the roles were reversed Albon would be chased out of F1 within few races. Interesting that Hamilton picked 4 penalty points and his tally last year was the highest if I am not mistaken.

e30ernest
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Joined: 29 Feb 2012, 08:47

Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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McMika98 wrote:
09 Jul 2020, 09:50
Wow finally someone who shares my sentiment. Hamilton isn't dirty but his antics when behind and not winning is that of a petulant child who won't accept someone beating him. Dont think the likes of Kimi or Vettel have that, even Alonso accepted his fate but always fought hard.
I disagree with that. Vettel has been very well known to have a bad temper from his Red Bull days all the way to his Ferrari days. Alonso also had a temper.

I think every champion would have that temper. It's that drive that makes them go for the next step where others would draw the line.

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SiLo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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This thread is such a salt fest. Can the mods just close it already?
Felipe Baby!

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