2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

[dans79]

I just watched the sit down post race interview, and Max sounds like he's ready to give up on the rest of the season.

It seems like the W11 has a significant tire life advantage over the RB-16 right now. Some of that might be down to the cooler temps and setup but I think the fact the Lewis was able to punch in the fastest lap (at the time) on 35 lap old mediums was a good sign of Merc's advantage.

DAS + RearSteer. Im sure it was the point of both developments, and now they get top rap the rewards.

I think the red bull's rear stability issue is probably the main cause of their lack of performance. It's not unlike the 2012/2013 Mercedes, fast over one lap but goes backwards during the race.

[Juzh]

It seems like the W11 has a significant tire life advantage over the RB-16 right now. Some of that might be down to the cooler temps and setup but I think the fact the Lewis was able to punch in the fastest lap (at the time) on 35 lap old mediums was a good sign of Merc's advantage.

DAS + RearSteer. Im sure it was the point of both developments, and now they get top rap the rewards.

I think the red bull's rear stability issue is probably the main cause of their lack of performance. It's not unlike the 2012/2013 Mercedes, fast over one lap but goes backwards during the race.

Yes, rear is unstable, but they're not going backwards during the race the way merc used to back then lol. Bottas would never catch verstappen if not for broken FW and RW endplates. Verstappen was putting 0.7s on average over albon in first stint, then after he had damage albon was putting 0.5s on him with a tyre delta of only 10 laps, so completely the opposite.

[dans79]

DAS + RearSteer. Im sure it was the point of both developments, and now they get top rap the rewards.

I think the red bull's rear stability issue is probably the main cause of their lack of performance. It's not unlike the 2012/2013 Mercedes, fast over one lap but goes backwards during the race.

Yes, rear is unstable, but they're not going backwards during the race the way merc used to back then lol. Bottas would never catch verstappen if not for broken FW and RW endplates. Verstappen was putting 0.7s on average over albon in first stint, then after he had damage albon was putting 0.5s on him with a tyre delta of only 10 laps, so completely the opposite.

Relative to the fastest Merc, max was slowely going backwards (see Max's radio when the team told him Merc was starting to push), Albon looked like he was dragging a parachute behind him compared to lewis (44 seconds benind).

[nacho]

MotoGP bikes do 350 km/h in the front straight here, actually more according to Brembo, I remember someone hittin 368 km/h before braking. I guess F1 will not be so fast as they will have put on a lot of wing.

[Zynerji]

Low rake is proving to be superior. Newey got it wrong!

[Juzh]

I think the red bull's rear stability issue is probably the main cause of their lack of performance. It's not unlike the 2012/2013 Mercedes, fast over one lap but goes backwards during the race.

Yes, rear is unstable, but they're not going backwards during the race the way merc used to back then lol. Bottas would never catch verstappen if not for broken FW and RW endplates. Verstappen was putting 0.7s on average over albon in first stint, then after he had damage albon was putting 0.5s on him with a tyre delta of only 10 laps, so completely the opposite.

Relative to the fastest Merc, max was slowely going backwards (see Max's radio when the team told him Merc was starting to push), Albon looked like he was dragging a parachute behind him compared to lewis (44 seconds benind).

Yes, merc (hamilton) is faster by a few tenths and probably 0.5s when flatout, but that's to be expected and in line with what we saw in preseason, first race and practice sessions. So RB is not really going backwards in the race, they're staying exactly where they're "supposed" to. Verstappen was able to counter bottas' laptimes in second stint with 10 laps older tyres and kept distance at 8-9s (still lapping 0.5s faster than albon who also had 10 laps fresher tyres) with 19 laps to go. Then as the car starts to fall apart suddenly his pace starts to drop off, while albon's gets better, initially able to match VER, then being 0.5s faster. Mind you, bottas wasn't particulary fast at this stage, barely keeping pace with albon of all people (perez much faster at this point).

[ENGINE TUNER]

I still dont know how to feel about the racing incident with Vettel. I keep drafting an opinion but the more i think about the more it just doesnt seem fair. Im not a Vettel fan but i just couldnt enjoy this race because of it.

Why is it so disconcerting? LEC was a bit optimistic in following the tire tracks of the car ahead of him(RUS I think), VET was kind of riding between 2 "lanes" and decided to go to the apex at the same time LEC chose to shoot the gap. As has happened many times before, 3 into 2 doesn't work. Its unfortunate for Ferrari because they couldn't evaluate the updates.

What really irritated me in this race was not getting to see what RUS could do.

[Jolle]

Yes, rear is unstable, but they're not going backwards during the race the way merc used to back then lol. Bottas would never catch verstappen if not for broken FW and RW endplates. Verstappen was putting 0.7s on average over albon in first stint, then after he had damage albon was putting 0.5s on him with a tyre delta of only 10 laps, so completely the opposite.

Relative to the fastest Merc, max was slowely going backwards (see Max's radio when the team told him Merc was starting to push), Albon looked like he was dragging a parachute behind him compared to lewis (44 seconds benind).

Yes, merc (hamilton) is faster by a few tenths and probably 0.5s when flatout, but that's to be expected and in line with what we saw in preseason, first race and practice sessions. So RB is not really going backwards in the race, they're staying exactly where they're "supposed" to. Verstappen was able to counter bottas' laptimes in second stint with 10 laps older tyres and kept distance at 8-9s (still lapping 0.5s faster than albon who also had 10 laps fresher tyres) with 19 laps to go. Then as the car starts to fall apart suddenly his pace starts to drop off, while albon's gets better, initially able to match VER, then being 0.5s faster. Mind you, bottas wasn't particulary fast at this stage, barely keeping pace with albon of all people (perez much faster at this point).

Also keep in mind that Bottas played the long game. Second was his goal this race (coming from fourth). Catching up to Verstappen didn’t need to be done in 3 laps.

[Juzh]

Relative to the fastest Merc, max was slowely going backwards (see Max's radio when the team told him Merc was starting to push), Albon looked like he was dragging a parachute behind him compared to lewis (44 seconds benind).

Yes, merc (hamilton) is faster by a few tenths and probably 0.5s when flatout, but that's to be expected and in line with what we saw in preseason, first race and practice sessions. So RB is not really going backwards in the race, they're staying exactly where they're "supposed" to. Verstappen was able to counter bottas' laptimes in second stint with 10 laps older tyres and kept distance at 8-9s (still lapping 0.5s faster than albon who also had 10 laps fresher tyres) with 19 laps to go. Then as the car starts to fall apart suddenly his pace starts to drop off, while albon's gets better, initially able to match VER, then being 0.5s faster. Mind you, bottas wasn't particulary fast at this stage, barely keeping pace with albon of all people (perez much faster at this point).

Also keep in mind that Bottas played the long game. Second was his goal this race (coming from fourth). Catching up to Verstappen didn’t need to be done in 3 laps.

Initially bottas was given a target to catch verstappen on the last lap. Do you really think they were pacing themselves to have only 1 chance at the very end? I dont think so. At that stage they were pushing as much as they could. You don't just leave those things to the last lap by choice.

[Jolle]

Yes, merc (hamilton) is faster by a few tenths and probably 0.5s when flatout, but that's to be expected and in line with what we saw in preseason, first race and practice sessions. So RB is not really going backwards in the race, they're staying exactly where they're "supposed" to. Verstappen was able to counter bottas' laptimes in second stint with 10 laps older tyres and kept distance at 8-9s (still lapping 0.5s faster than albon who also had 10 laps fresher tyres) with 19 laps to go. Then as the car starts to fall apart suddenly his pace starts to drop off, while albon's gets better, initially able to match VER, then being 0.5s faster. Mind you, bottas wasn't particulary fast at this stage, barely keeping pace with albon of all people (perez much faster at this point).

Also keep in mind that Bottas played the long game. Second was his goal this race (coming from fourth). Catching up to Verstappen didn’t need to be done in 3 laps.

Initially bottas was given a target to catch verstappen on the last lap. Do you really think they were pacing themselves to have only 1 chance at the very end? I dont think so. At that stage they were pushing as much as they could. You don't just leave those things to the last lap by choice.

They told him “at this pace you will catch him on the last lap” in other words; “speed up a bit”

[maxxer]

I still dont know how to feel about the racing incident with Vettel. I keep drafting an opinion but the more i think about the more it just doesnt seem fair. Im not a Vettel fan but i just couldnt enjoy this race because of it.

1. Why is it so disconcerting? 2. LEC was a bit optimistic in following the tire tracks of the car ahead of him(RUS I think), 3. VET was kind of riding between 2 "lanes" and decided to go to the apex at the same time LEC chose to shoot the gap. As has happened many times before, 3 into 2 doesn't work. Its unfortunate for Ferrari because they couldn't evaluate the updates.

What really irritated me in this race was not getting to see what RUS could do.

1. Racer X feeling a bit off about the crash shouldn't be so disconcerting, yet you are really irritated about Russel. OK.

2. Really? That's the wording you use in case of LeClerc? You would be throwing a tantrum if it was Vettel on LeClerc, like you always do, but OK.

3. Still you somehow try to put the blame (partially) on Vettel.

You are so full of it mate.

Leclerc should have just slotted in behind vettel would have given them much good options forward not letting a slower car split them
Leclerc its not a time to fight your teammate now
Need to go for testing those new parts and maybe get some points.

[ENGINE TUNER]

I still dont know how to feel about the racing incident with Vettel. I keep drafting an opinion but the more i think about the more it just doesnt seem fair. Im not a Vettel fan but i just couldnt enjoy this race because of it.

1. Why is it so disconcerting? 2. LEC was a bit optimistic in following the tire tracks of the car ahead of him(RUS I think), 3. VET was kind of riding between 2 "lanes" and decided to go to the apex at the same time LEC chose to shoot the gap. As has happened many times before, 3 into 2 doesn't work. Its unfortunate for Ferrari because they couldn't evaluate the updates.

What really irritated me in this race was not getting to see what RUS could do.

1. Racer X feeling a bit off about the crash shouldn't be so disconcerting, yet you are really irritated about Russel. OK.

2. Really? That's the wording you use in case of LeClerc? You would be throwing a tantrum if it was Vettel on LeClerc, like you always do, but OK.

3. Still you somehow try to put the blame (partially) on Vettel.

You are so full of it mate.

All I meant is that it was unfortunate, but we have seen 3 into 2 accidents on the starts very often, so I don't understand why it would ruin the whole race for him.

I didn't put any blame on VET, I'm merely pointing out that everyone else was 2 by 2 in line except VET, but when VET went to get into the same line as the others LEC was already headed there.

I don't throw tantrums

[PlatinumZealot]

No, no, no. Most teams are under fueled, they don't fill up the cars, the race fuel limit is not any type of problem and refueling is the worst thing F1 could reintroduce.

We don't need more pit stops, we need more on track action/battles. If anything we need the 2005 tires back. I'd rather watch side by side racing rather than F1 cars at the pit speed limit.

They don't fill up the cars because they cannot use the extra fuel, because the tires overheat. It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also filling up the whole fuel load would make the car heavy and slow (and is bad on tires too). While half-filling up during pit stops would not have that problem. You would use your whole fuel allotment too.
So Refueling is far from the worst thing F1 could reintroduce. How about grooved tires? Ugly and stupid.

"We don't need more pit stops" is just your opinion. Some people do enjoy the strategy part of F1 too, not just the racing on track. Besides, this will also give you more on track action/battles as the cars will be on different strategies and have to overtake more (and it will be easier too). Less processions.
F1 cars at pit speed limit is grossly overstated by you. It will just be 20 more seconds per car in a 2 hour race. And the race will be much better.

The other idea I had to allow for more pit-stop strategies to not suck (and not be used by the vast majority of cars as now), is to shorten pit entries/exits. Make the pit stops less time consuming and then the speed gains will be more appetizing.

The current cars don't use much fuel, Merc are winning most races with about 90-95kg of fuel. Even if they did allow refueling there would still only be 1 stop races. Nothing can change until the tires improve.

The strategy should be... go fast, I get no pleasure watching the fastest race cars in the world trundling down the pit lane at 60kph. The days of refueling in F1 were horrible, bo on track battles, cars on different sides if the track battling each other on the stopwatch rather than wheel to wheel. F1 should never ever go back to that bs.

If you're on light fuel you like 3 seconds a lap faster. That covers a pitstop delay in about 9 to
10 laps. Refuelling is the ticket. I have a solution for solving the disadvatnges of refuelling though.

Remember 2009... Early pitstops on like lap 12?!! Cars pushing hell for leather to gain a gap... Versus the 'oil tanker" strategy of slow and steady hoping for a saftey car or some other eventuality. It was intriguing, varied, unpredictable and fun to watch, for me at least.

[ENGINE TUNER]

They don't fill up the cars because they cannot use the extra fuel, because the tires overheat. It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also filling up the whole fuel load would make the car heavy and slow (and is bad on tires too). While half-filling up during pit stops would not have that problem. You would use your whole fuel allotment too.
So Refueling is far from the worst thing F1 could reintroduce. How about grooved tires? Ugly and stupid.

"We don't need more pit stops" is just your opinion. Some people do enjoy the strategy part of F1 too, not just the racing on track. Besides, this will also give you more on track action/battles as the cars will be on different strategies and have to overtake more (and it will be easier too). Less processions.
F1 cars at pit speed limit is grossly overstated by you. It will just be 20 more seconds per car in a 2 hour race. And the race will be much better.

The other idea I had to allow for more pit-stop strategies to not suck (and not be used by the vast majority of cars as now), is to shorten pit entries/exits. Make the pit stops less time consuming and then the speed gains will be more appetizing.

The current cars don't use much fuel, Merc are winning most races with about 90-95kg of fuel. Even if they did allow refueling there would still only be 1 stop races. Nothing can change until the tires improve.

The strategy should be... go fast, I get no pleasure watching the fastest race cars in the world trundling down the pit lane at 60kph. The days of refueling in F1 were horrible, bo on track battles, cars on different sides if the track battling each other on the stopwatch rather than wheel to wheel. F1 should never ever go back to that bs.

If you're on light fuel you like 3 seconds a lap faster. That covers a pitstop delay in about 8 laps. Refuelling is the ticket. I have a solution for solving the disadvatnges of refuelling though.

You can't go 3 seconds a lap faster because the tires will overheat in 2 consecutive hard laps. Refueling is not the answer, better tires are.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Remember 2009... Early pitstops on like lap 12?!! Cars pushing hell for leather to gain a gap... Versus the 'oil tanker" strategy of slow and steady hoping for a saftey car or some other eventuality. It was intriguing, varied, unpredictable and fun to watch, for me at least.

I prefer on track wheel to wheel battles