Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Xwang
Xwang
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I think it is BS.
AFAIK phonometric measures were used with NA engines where power increases pretty linearly with engine speed.
With turbo compound and hybrid engines like the actual F1 PU, I do not see how it is possible to get the power value by measuring the engine ICE RPM.
However I could be wrong
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

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etusch
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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LM10 wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:48 pm
Nano4k wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:42 pm
saw a lot smoking coming from the rear Racing Point, Williams und Mercedes car. all related to the engine?
havent seen that much smoke last year.
Was like that in testing already. Only Mercedes engines.
Can there be something like Ferrari did but better one ? Ferrari fumes were famous last season.

casper
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I came across a table used in Detailed Hydrocarbon Analysis method for quantifying the organic homologues: paraffins, isoparaffins, olefins, naphthene, olefins, aromatics, and oxygenates. The table lists organic compound with their Octane numbers, with some higher than MTBE's (the first additive that replaced tetra ethyl lead, but subsequently banned too). Can I post it here?

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Sieper
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I’ve seen it the most at Perez.Quite often. Out of turn 2 (Max power uphill) Bottas also had it when accelerating out of turn 2 in Steirmark GP. I read somewhere it had to do with using the fuel as cooling and then sometimes being forced to dump somewhat.

I find it remarkable to see at turn 2, the very highest power need moment. Proofs of smoke we don’t see at any of the other PUs, not even Smokey Ferrari anymore.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The Ferrari engine isn't smoking anymore since 2018 that was when we saw a lot of smoke on startup.
Some people explained that with seals not being tight in ambient temp.
The Merc engine (at least in the RP) is also spraying some oil/liquid as seen on the onboards of cars following.
Interestingly only on the curb out of turn 3 for at least the first 7 laps of the Austrian GP.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:01 pm
The Ferrari engine isn't smoking anymore since 2018 that was when we saw a lot of smoke on startup.
Some people explained that with seals not being tight in ambient temp.
The Merc engine (at least in the RP) is also spraying some oil/liquid as seen on the onboards of cars following.
Interestingly only on the curb out of turn 3 for at least the first 7 laps of the Austrian GP.
That was just overflow of the excess

Hoffman900
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Xwang wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:21 am
I think it is BS.
AFAIK phonometric measures were used with NA engines where power increases pretty linearly with engine speed.
With turbo compound and hybrid engines like the actual F1 PU, I do not see how it is possible to get the power value by measuring the engine ICE RPM.
However I could be wrong
Hence my seeking their methodology and reasoning.

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Mudflap
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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It helps them work out the gearing, they still need the speed traces as well as estimates for car mass and drag levels.
Given that current engines are all within 5% or so chances are the measurement error is larger than the differences they are trying to measure.
nah pop no style

Hoffman900
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:56 pm
It helps them work out the gearing, they still need the speed traces as well as estimates for car mass and drag levels.
Given that current engines are all within 5% or so chances are the measurement error is larger than the differences they are trying to measure.
Exactly. 15%, maybe, but trying to hash out the last <10% with this methodology seems a bit of a stretch. It's a fun exercise, but seems little use other than some bench racing on some forums.

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Blackout
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:56 pm
It helps them work out the gearing, they still need the speed traces as well as estimates for car mass and drag levels.
Given that current engines are all within 5% or so chances are the measurement error is larger than the differences they are trying to measure.
Is that number just an example or is it based on real infos?

There is a guy in another forum who claims to have insiders infos from Viry and he says that the estimated peak power in Qualy are:
1070 - 1075 Renault
1065 -1070 Honda - Merc
1025 -1030 Ferrari

And Gasly said in french tv that the Honda produces 1050hp

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Mudflap
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Blackout wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:06 am
Mudflap wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:56 pm
It helps them work out the gearing, they still need the speed traces as well as estimates for car mass and drag levels.
Given that current engines are all within 5% or so chances are the measurement error is larger than the differences they are trying to measure.
Is that number just an example or is it based on real infos?

There is a guy in another forum who claims to have insiders infos from Viry and he says that the estimated peak power in Qualy are:
1070 - 1075 Renault
1065 -1070 Honda - Merc
1025 -1030 Ferrari

And Gasly said in french tv that the Honda produces 1050hp

Well the numbers you posted are within 5% too.
I was actually going by some numbers posted by Gary Anderson in a recent article (might have been it the comments section) which gave a slightly different ranking but were also within 5% (delta between most powerful to least powerful)
nah pop no style

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Blackout
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Thanks.
And what is that article about? :P

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etusch
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Blackout wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:06 am
Mudflap wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:56 pm
It helps them work out the gearing, they still need the speed traces as well as estimates for car mass and drag levels.
Given that current engines are all within 5% or so chances are the measurement error is larger than the differences they are trying to measure.
Is that number just an example or is it based on real infos?

There is a guy in another forum who claims to have insiders infos from Viry and he says that the estimated peak power in Qualy are:
1070 - 1075 Renault
1065 -1070 Honda - Merc
1025 -1030 Ferrari

And Gasly said in french tv that the Honda produces 1050hp
Mr Abitebul please make a comment.

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Mudflap
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Blackout wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:00 am
Thanks.
And what is that article about? :P
It was one of the many "why are ferrari so slow" articles on The Race.
I am fairly sure the hp figures he had were posted in the comments section somehwere, can't find them again.
It gave a maximum difference of 45hp between best and worst PUs so very much in line with what you have
nah pop no style

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Blackout
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Thanks.
So if we cross-check Wazari's infos with Gasly's number and your Info we should have these Q peak power values:
Renault: over 9000
Mercedes: between 1051 and 1069
Honda: 1050
Ferrari: 1020 more or less