Engine Valves

[panchito401]

This is an idea I've thought about for a while, not only limited to F1 engines but road cars as well, just wondering if anyone with some serious engineering knowledge (unlike myself) can tell me why this isn't used. The graphic is pretty rudimentary and took me about 4 minutes (not kidding) to model in CATIA. hey, saving money on engineering costs already! (i understand that it would need to be tuned correctly though) I would probably add some sort of vanes inside the opening to create a venturi effect for the intakes, but leave the exhausts the way its shown here.

as you can probably tell, you'd need to build an applicable cylinder head around it and tolerace it within the chamber accordingly, but i think this illustrates what i've been trying to say.

I've always thought this would tried in racing at some point due to:
1. able to deal with extremely high engine speeds since theres only 4 moving parts
2. way less moving parts (4 per V-8 block versus maybe 60+ for a pnuematic system)
3. less interference in the cylinder
4. way less weight of the head
5. better packaging
6. smoother airflow
7. CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP Cheap to machine, cheap to maintain, cheap to replace. probably pretty durable also.



Anyway, let me know what you think! If you think its total rubbish than let it fly! Any thoughts or suggestions for it would be appreciated. Or any reference material where this was used and tried and proved unsuccessful.

Thanks!

-f

[malbeare]

panchito401,
seals and lubrication issues need to be addressed.
great drawing
malbeare

[alexbarwell]

Congrats on sorting the model, unfortunately I think you have been beaten to it on the design though. I must admit my recollection is about as sketchy as it gets, but some magazine (Car & Car Conversions??) from about 14 years ago ran an article showing a prototype with the rotary valve train I think you are talking about. Essentially this running as the cam and valve equivalents straight to the combustion chamber so valve operation-wise you stand to literally rev the nuts off it, just if you could get those damn piston things to do the same without poking holse in other bits. I alluded to this design a month or so ago in another thread that I can't recall. Sorry if this bursts your bubble. There is info out there somewhere on a similar design, just no idea where. Never made it into large scale production though so maybe a chance now.

[DaveKillens]

Spherical rotary valve. Very nice idea, but sadly .. http://www.coatesengine.com/index.html

[ISLAMATRON]

Man I love rotory engines, none of those silly pistons & valves to mess everything up.

[donskar]

The French AGS F1 team in the late 1980s worked in conjunction with a Fernch engineering firm to develop a rotary valve F1 engine. The result was a failure due to lack of funding (and MAYBE talent?) required to sort out the many issues encountered.

I hope some other members of this forum can suply more details.

The AGS name lives on in the form of some sort of "F1 experience/driving school."

[panchito401]

DAMN THOSE BASTARDS!

Well, thanks for the comments and the info guys. It's something I thought about 6 or so years ago (actually, I was shitfaced drunk on my girlfriends couch), but never really sat down and drawn up. Guess I should do that next time I have some strange idea come into my head. I think I might be able to apply a different spin on it than that coates company but they probably have it patented from here to kingdom come.

I do think I could draw it up and make it a hell of alot simpler, lighter and smaller.

I don't believe the sealing would be too much of an issue if you applied a spheroidical bushing for it to rub up against just inside the area where the valve meets the head and try to tolerance or hide it out of the detonation area. cooling would probably be a bigger problem though im sure it could be fixed by blasting water through the heads the normal way. They seem to think pumping water through the length of the "valve" does the trick, but i think that just strays away from my point of less moving parts and less efficiency.

-f

[Ian P.]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... wanted=all

Seems this has been in various stages of development since 1922.
Not trying to dampen your entheusism, I think it is a great idea.
Unfortunately it seems it will never get into F1 so long as there are cost limitations and MM is around running things.
Ian P.

[Belatti]

Fransisco, check out this topic:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3045&hilit=+rotary+valves

[panchito401]

Thanks for all the info guys... I'm reading all of this stuff right now!

-f

[riff_raff]

panchito401,

Nice CATIA model, but unfortunately rotary valves are no longer legal in F1.

Ilmor/Bishop had one on the dyno for a while, and by all accounts it seemed to perform very well:

http://home.people.net.au/~mrbdesign/PD ... echBRV.pdf

I actually patented a rotary valve myself back in 1992, and it was almost identical to the Ilmor/Bishop design of 1997. Of course, I'm not as wealthy as Messr. Illien and Morgan, so I was not as successful with my endeavor, even though I was first. My patent is US no. 5,052,349, check it out.

Regards,
Terry

[john Stiner]

Hello, stumbled on this over the net, very interesting forum. Rotary valves do work very well, as the previous poster said the Ilmor Bishop valve was supposed to have worked better than the poppet valve as a V10 although I think it took some time to translate it from a single cylinder. I hope one day someone makes it work and markets it.