Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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LM10
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:31 pm
Lewis commented that Mercedes has the best aerodynamicist in the sport. Seems that Newey has lost his throne? Or was Newey never an aero-guy but a whole-car type of guy?
And that's true because Hamilton commented it? :)

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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It is not often you hear a driver bigging up the aerodynamicist!

So John Owen is the chief designer and Jorrod Murphy is the chief aerodynamicist.

I guess John would be the Adrian Newey and Jorrod the Peter Prodromu... Something like that.
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Hoffman900
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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It's antiquated thinking to think there is one lone genius who can make these cars work.

Mercedes has the best team of engineers period. Guys at the top are just really managers and set the direction of their teams. If teams are still operating the old school way, then that will always hold them back in today's world.

It's no different than any other engineering / science discipline.

dans79
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Hoffman900 wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:07 pm
It's antiquated thinking to think there is one lone genius who can make these cars work.

Mercedes has the best team of engineers period. Guys at the top are just really managers and set the direction of their teams. If teams are still operating the old school way, then that will always hold them back in today's world.

It's no different than any other engineering / science discipline.
100% agree!
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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The guys at the top have a huge infleunce on the team they build and manage though.
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..

Dipesh1995
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:31 pm
Lewis commented that Mercedes has the best aerodynamicist in the sport. Seems that Newey has lost his throne? Or was Newey never an aero-guy but a whole-car type of guy?
Whilst Newey may hold the position as "Chief Technical Officer", he is very much an aerodynamicist. You know this as soon as you first set foot into his office... :lol:

Another factor to consider is that Mercedes have a substantially larger aero department than Red Bull and thus have more flexibility to split their resources.

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GPR-A
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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LM10 wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:42 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:31 pm
Lewis commented that Mercedes has the best aerodynamicist in the sport. Seems that Newey has lost his throne? Or was Newey never an aero-guy but a whole-car type of guy?
And that's true because Hamilton commented it? :)
He can say that because of the results, which is all that matters.

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GPR-A
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Dipesh1995 wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:50 am
Another factor to consider is that Mercedes have a substantially larger aero department than Red Bull and thus have more flexibility to split their resources.
Can you be more specific on the numbers?

Hoffman900 wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:07 pm
It's antiquated thinking to think there is one lone genius who can make these cars work.

Mercedes has the best team of engineers period. Guys at the top are just really managers and set the direction of their teams. If teams are still operating the old school way, then that will always hold them back in today's world.

It's no different than any other engineering / science discipline.
Perfect. I have this a hundred times.

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GPR-A
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:48 pm
It is not often you hear a driver bigging up the aerodynamicist!

So John Owen is the chief designer and Jorrod Murphy is the chief aerodynamicist.

I guess John would be the Adrian Newey and Jorrod the Peter Prodromu... Something like that.
There are old guards like Geoff Willis (Director of Digital Engineering, a Former RedBull Technical Director of Aero) and Mike Elliott (Technology Director, a former Aero head of Renault), who were hired by Brawn, who are still part of the Aero organization with very high positions. Allison himself is an aero guy, with qualification in aerospace engineering. They have a team of talented and experienced people on aero.

Link -> Formula 1: How Toto Wolff made Mercedes one of sport's greatest teams
Toto talks a bit about solving their low speed performance.
By Andrew Benson, Chief F1 writer, 9 July 2019 wrote:There has also been a change on the car front this year. Mercedes have struggled on low-speed circuits in recent times, but this season Allison, technology director Mike Elliott, head of aerodynamics Jarrod Murphy, head of vehicle dynamics Loic Serra and chief designer John Owen developed a new design philosophy - and slow corners are now the car's biggest strength.

Dipesh1995
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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GPR-A wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:45 am
Dipesh1995 wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:50 am
Another factor to consider is that Mercedes have a substantially larger aero department than Red Bull and thus have more flexibility to split their resources.
Can you be more specific on the numbers?
According to Newey himself, the Mercedes aero department is about as twice as large. However, this may have been a little exaggeration having had the opportunity to chat with RB's aero department manager; still, "substantially larger" stands.

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GPR-A
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Dipesh1995 wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:10 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:45 am
Dipesh1995 wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:50 am
Another factor to consider is that Mercedes have a substantially larger aero department than Red Bull and thus have more flexibility to split their resources.
Can you be more specific on the numbers?
According to Newey himself, the Mercedes aero department is about as twice as large. However, this may have been a little exaggeration having had the opportunity to chat with RB's aero department manager; still, "substantially larger" stands.
That is just a broad, subjective statement from a competitor who has been unable to beat his main competitor. For that, he is giving an excuse. Unless there is an org structure that is public for both companies, which provides an accurate statistical picture of how many individuals work in each department, such statements carry no weight and just hot gas and can't be used as a proof in an argument.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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We know that Mercedes aero is 5000 expressionless men in lab coats in a huge, biosealed building where RBR is just Newey, some pencils, a ruler and a bit of paper in his garden shed, fighting the good fight.

(Yes, it's only a joke) :)

63l8qrrfy6
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:42 pm
We know that Mercedes aero is 5000 expressionless men in lab coats in a huge, biosealed building where RBR is just Newey, some pencils, a ruler and a bit of paper in his garden shed, fighting the good fight.

(Yes, it's only a joke) :)
According to some they have replaced the 5000 expressionless men with one supersmart AI which designs everything.
So basically it's Newey vs Skynet.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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Mudflap wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:55 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:42 pm
We know that Mercedes aero is 5000 expressionless men in lab coats in a huge, biosealed building where RBR is just Newey, some pencils, a ruler and a bit of paper in his garden shed, fighting the good fight.

(Yes, it's only a joke) :)
According to some they have replaced the 5000 expressionless men with one supersmart AI which designs everything.
So basically it's Newey vs Skynet.
Skynet-> Terminator-> Schwarzenegger-> Wolff-> Mercedes..... Hmmmmm :)

Dipesh1995
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Re: Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

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GPR-A wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:57 pm
That is just a broad, subjective statement from a competitor who has been unable to beat his main competitor. For that, he is giving an excuse. Unless there is an org structure that is public for both companies, which provides an accurate statistical picture of how many individuals work in each department, such statements carry no weight and just hot gas and can't be used as a proof in an argument.
I mean it’s up to you what you want to believe or not but I’m of the view that there is at least some truth to that statement. Not that this is some conclusive or even half-conclusive proof, but this may be of some interest to you. https://www.racefans.net/2020/01/02/the ... ams-spent/