Mercedes W11

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
bosyber
bosyber
62
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:41 pm

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

Mercedes reported that on the testbench they could get over 1000HP a couple of years ago, which doesn't mean that they could get that from the unit installed in the car at each track, because there aero and weight limits to cooling, for example.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
771
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

If they had 1000hp on the bench two years ago, they could well have it in the car today. Perhaps only in Q3, but there's no reason why two years of effort won't have made it possible.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

User avatar
F1Krof
78
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:17 pm

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:31 am
If they had 1000hp on the bench two years ago, they could well have it in the car today. Perhaps only in Q3, but there's no reason why two years of effort won't have made it possible.
But lets not forget, during that time they had more freedom with oil trickery compared to today.
Wroom wroom

User avatar
subcritical71
99
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:04 pm
Location: USA-Florida

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

F1Krof wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:34 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:31 am
If they had 1000hp on the bench two years ago, they could well have it in the car today. Perhaps only in Q3, but there's no reason why two years of effort won't have made it possible.
But lets not forget, during that time they had more freedom with oil trickery compared to today.
I always wonder why people put the oil trickery in such a negative light. It is still legal to do even today and Merc were not found to be outside the rules in that regard. But anyway, the performance of these cars has improved year over year, some or most of that improvement has came from the PU, even with the Various regulatory changes and TDS put in place. It’s been the same for all teams not just Merc (with Ferrari this year an outlier).

zibby43
zibby43
669
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

Image

Image

User avatar
F1Krof
78
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:17 pm

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

Did they mention any updates for this weekend?
Wroom wroom

zibby43
zibby43
669
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

F1Krof wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:30 pm
Did they mention any updates for this weekend?
Haven't heard anything re: updates.

I'm guessing Merc will be saving their more extensive update package for Barcelona.

bill shoe
bill shoe
253
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

F1Krof wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:30 pm
Did they mention any updates for this weekend?
No, not yet. I think they'll have to struggle on for now with being only one second clear of the field.

User avatar
Big Tea
163
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

zibby43 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:41 pm
F1Krof wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:30 pm
Did they mention any updates for this weekend?
Haven't heard anything re: updates.

I'm guessing Merc will be saving their more extensive update package for Barcelona.
I doubt they would 'save' them once they were ready as further development would depend on the performance of this pac, and if they were mistaken with some thing the next issue would be wrong too . Unless of course it is something they want to keep hidden, and then we probably not see it until someone was chasing them hard or late in the season or when it would not be classed as an upgrade later.

After last weeks show, if there were new packages for other tracks and they were ready I think Merc would run them as they have a very sorted car and could revert if not 100% happy with them even if the package was not specifically for Silverstone. At least give it a thrashing in FP1 and see what happens. :mrgreen:
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
771
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

zibby43 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:41 pm
F1Krof wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:30 pm
Did they mention any updates for this weekend?
Haven't heard anything re: updates.

I'm guessing Merc will be saving their more extensive update package for Barcelona.
Can you imagine the fall out if they turn up and add 0.5 second to the gap back to the rest? :shock:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

zibby43
zibby43
669
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

Big Tea wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:16 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:41 pm
F1Krof wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:30 pm
Did they mention any updates for this weekend?
Haven't heard anything re: updates.

I'm guessing Merc will be saving their more extensive update package for Barcelona.
I doubt they would 'save' them once they were ready as further development would depend on the performance of this pac, and if they were mistaken with some thing the next issue would be wrong too . Unless of course it is something they want to keep hidden, and then we probably not see it until someone was chasing them hard or late in the season or when it would not be classed as an upgrade later.

After last weeks show, if there were new packages for other tracks and they were ready I think Merc would run them as they have a very sorted car and could revert if not 100% happy with them even if the package was not specifically for Silverstone. At least give it a thrashing in FP1 and see what happens. :mrgreen:
My logic was based on the fact that in the hybrid era, especially in the past few years, Barcelona has been where Mercedes has introduced their most extensive upgrade packages.

There are a few reasons for this. First, since Barcelona is the pre-season testing track, Merc have tons and tons of data for that track for correlation purposes. Which is critical when evaluating updates.

Second, Barcelona also has a variety of different types of corners (unlike Silverstone, which only has a few low-speed corners), which is extremely useful in evaluating the performance of updates.

So yeah, in a situation where Merc is not in desperate need of rushing updates on the car, I think it would make a lot more sense to save them for Barcelona.

zibby43
zibby43
669
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:02 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:41 pm
F1Krof wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:30 pm
Did they mention any updates for this weekend?
Haven't heard anything re: updates.

I'm guessing Merc will be saving their more extensive update package for Barcelona.
Can you imagine the fall out if they turn up and add 0.5 second to the gap back to the rest? :shock:
It would be apocalyptic. Which would be on brand for '20 so far.

I was listening to Mark Hughes and Scott Mitchell on "The Race F1 Podcast," and they pointed out how Merc's step this year was about what they normally do, as evidenced by their gap to the midfield remaining similar to what it was last year.

It's Ferrari and Red Bull dropping out of those second and third spots that has made it seem like Merc's progress was other-worldly. I'm not short-changing Merc's awesome development work with the PU and the rear suspension, but Red Bull's, and particularly Ferrari's, performance this year has exacerbated the perceived improvement Merc has made.

User avatar
Big Tea
163
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

zibby43 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:25 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:16 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:41 pm


Haven't heard anything re: updates.

I'm guessing Merc will be saving their more extensive update package for Barcelona.
I doubt they would 'save' them once they were ready as further development would depend on the performance of this pac, and if they were mistaken with some thing the next issue would be wrong too . Unless of course it is something they want to keep hidden, and then we probably not see it until someone was chasing them hard or late in the season or when it would not be classed as an upgrade later.

After last weeks show, if there were new packages for other tracks and they were ready I think Merc would run them as they have a very sorted car and could revert if not 100% happy with them even if the package was not specifically for Silverstone. At least give it a thrashing in FP1 and see what happens. :mrgreen:
My logic was based on the fact that in the hybrid era, especially in the past few years, Barcelona has been where Mercedes has introduced their most extensive upgrade packages.

There are a few reasons for this. First, since Barcelona is the pre-season testing track, Merc have tons and tons of data for that track for correlation purposes. Which is critical when evaluating updates.

Second, Barcelona also has a variety of different types of corners (unlike Silverstone, which only has a few low-speed corners), which is extremely useful in evaluating the performance of updates.

So yeah, in a situation where Merc is not in desperate need of rushing updates on the car, I think it would make a lot more sense to save them for Barcelona.
I see what you are saying, but what if they get to Barca and they do not work as expected? Not only are they one step behind where they thought, but other mods have been planned using the Barca baseline, which will then also be wrong.

I have no reason to push this as true, just the way I see it, and yours is just as valid so no disagreement with you
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

User avatar
Morteza
2605
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:23 pm
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

Image
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
771
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

The upper photo has a very skinny rear wing. The main plane is noticeably higher on the endplate.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"