2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

[dans79]

Merc failed because of higher tyre pressue. They had massive problem with overheating tyres.

FIA and Pirelli will lower the pressue for the next race, I am sure of that.

The pressures where for sure high at 27 psi. I've owned cars that had pressures lower than that.

[aral]

It's not a matter of over-driving. Or tire degradation. It was a matter of blistering today.

Blistering occurs when a tire overheats. The excess heat causes the tread to soften, and then it starts to break away.

What factors can cause overheating? Several, but 2 of the most important are: 1) over-inflation and 2) high track temperatures. The third factor is how much the car is asking from the tires, and the Merc demands a lot due to the downforce it generates, but it is a very well-sorted car on the suspension front, which is why, the vast majority of the time since '19, Merc has had class-leading tire wear.

I also don't think there is anything Mercedes could've done in qualifying to make themselves slower in qualifying, and subsequently faster in the race. Those setup choices and the trade off between race and quali pace are more relevant when it comes to degradation, not an anomaly like blistering.

Kind of like how Mercedes goes with a low rake concept to be well-rounded and fast at the majority of circuits on the calendar, they design the car/suspension to consistently energize/work with the harder compounds that are used on race day, in a temperature range that best represents most of the calendar.

For whatever reason, the Red Bull struggles to get the best out of their car in the circumstances that apply to the vast majority of races, but on those one-off days when the tires are pumped up to levels approaching the PSI of a 19" road car tire and the track temperatures are 40+ C, the car just suddenly works.

Of course it was about blistering, but the fact is that the Mercs were blistering after only a few laps. Whereas the RB was not blistering. So, either the geometry was at fault, putting unusual strain on the tyres, or else the drivers....both of them....were pushing the cars too hard. And as regards tyre pressures? All cars had to run with the same pressures.
Note that apart from the inner edges of the fronts blistering, the rears were blistering in the centre

[TimW]

I would have expected Mercedes to be the king of tyre management this year, with DAS giving them an additional control input. Bit surprised that there is no clear advantage.

Also a bit surprised that some above are 'blaming' the tyres for Mercedes loss today, as if Red Bull lucked into this win. Tyre management is and has always been a key factor in racing. Red Bull have been very good at it in recent years, and should be applauded for that.

[dans79]

And as regards tyre pressures? All cars had to run with the same pressures.

That's not the point, and I'm pretty sure you know that!

Every team designs their car to work within a given range of numerous factors including tire pressures. The tire pressures for this weekend were far hire than they normally are.

No one outside of Mercedes will know for sure what tire pressure range Mercedes designed their car for. However in my opinion they didn't do anything set up wise to negate the high pressures.

[i70q7m7ghw]

A very tactical and well-driven race from Max & Red Bull, very impressive, they played it perfectly. I do wonder how it would have played out if Hamilton had led out of T1, I feel like he would have managed the race a little better than Bottas, perhaps not enough to win but it might have made it more of an on-track race rather than a tactical one. Bottas was soundly beaten again, even when given track position. He's running out of answers.

What was the deal with Hulk's final pitstop? It looked to me like RP wanted to swap the positions so daddy's boy was in front? And Vettel, jeez... time to retire I think.

Closing thought on tyres, I'm all for more pit stops and shorter tyre life, but the tyre needs to allow the driver to push for the duration of the stint. A tyre that blisters a couple of laps into the stint is not fit for purpose, and Pirelli need to address this.

[aral]

And as regards tyre pressures? All cars had to run with the same pressures.

That's not the point, and I'm pretty sure you know that!

Every team designs their car to work within a given range of numerous factors including tire pressures. The tire pressures for this weekend were far hire than they normally are.

No one outside of Mercedes will know for sure what tire pressure range Mercedes designed their car for. However in my opinion they didn't do anything set up wise to negate the high pressures.

So you are saying that all other teams were able to plan for the higher tyre pressuresa but merc were not able to? There is no evidence that tyre pressure itself was the problem. All teams had the same info.

[Big Tea]

Merc problems were not helped by the tyre allocation other ways too. As there were so many soft they did not have a may sets of anything else to burn. Had they suspected the temp problem and had spare sets they have run some gently to season them, and with possible knowledge the drivers may have been told to ease back a little on early laps after the change.

Whichever, I enjoyed the different race, and in the whole scheme of things it is not going to be a huge loss to Merc, it was a better total than last week plus RbR have some encouragement.

[zibby43]

It's not a matter of over-driving. Or tire degradation. It was a matter of blistering today.

Blistering occurs when a tire overheats. The excess heat causes the tread to soften, and then it starts to break away.

What factors can cause overheating? Several, but 2 of the most important are: 1) over-inflation and 2) high track temperatures. The third factor is how much the car is asking from the tires, and the Merc demands a lot due to the downforce it generates, but it is a very well-sorted car on the suspension front, which is why, the vast majority of the time since '19, Merc has had class-leading tire wear.

I also don't think there is anything Mercedes could've done in qualifying to make themselves slower in qualifying, and subsequently faster in the race. Those setup choices and the trade off between race and quali pace are more relevant when it comes to degradation, not an anomaly like blistering.

Kind of like how Mercedes goes with a low rake concept to be well-rounded and fast at the majority of circuits on the calendar, they design the car/suspension to consistently energize/work with the harder compounds that are used on race day, in a temperature range that best represents most of the calendar.

For whatever reason, the Red Bull struggles to get the best out of their car in the circumstances that apply to the vast majority of races, but on those one-off days when the tires are pumped up to levels approaching the PSI of a 19" road car tire and the track temperatures are 40+ C, the car just suddenly works.

Of course it was about blistering, but the fact is that the Mercs were blistering after only a few laps. Whereas the RB was not blistering. So, either the geometry was at fault, putting unusual strain on the tyres, or else the drivers....both of them....were pushing the cars too hard. And as regards tyre pressures? All cars had to run with the same pressures.
Note that apart from the inner edges of the fronts blistering, the rears were blistering in the centre

Absolutely. But as Hamilton pointed out during the race (which is amazing he could notice this visually while driving an F1 car at speed around Silverstone), it looked like the Red Bulls' in-race tire pressures were lower than the Mercs'.

And Mercedes confirmed this in their debrief today (i.e., Mercs' tires continued to balloon during the race, exceeding a point where stabilization of the pressures was irrelevant, as the damage had already been done). Merc were absolutely fine with the high starting pressures, initially.

They were absolutely fine in their race runs during FP, too. But today, during the race, their tire pressures kept rising and rising, instead of eventually stabilizing and remaining at a manageable level. And that is what the team will investigate this week. Even though it is unlikely that we will see starting pressures that high again this season, whatever they will uncover will no doubt be relevant to events with high track temperatures, which probably played the second most significant role in the runaway pressures during the raise (aside from starting pressure).

[zibby43]

I would have expected Mercedes to be the king of tyre management this year, with DAS giving them an additional control input. Bit surprised that there is no clear advantage.

Also a bit surprised that some above are 'blaming' the tyres for Mercedes loss today, as if Red Bull lucked into this win. Tyre management is and has always been a key factor in racing. Red Bull have been very good at it in recent years, and should be applauded for that.

Red Bull didn't luck into the win. You have to build a car that is capable of capitalizing upon today's unique conditions, and then when those conditions arise, you have to execute. They did both.

But the tires are 100% the reason why Mercedes lost today. We'll know the reason soon enough, but their tires, with how they ran the car today, could not cope with the high temperatures, and literally the highest tire pressures ever mandated by Pirelli in the hybrid era.

And as I've pointed out multiple times today, when someone says tire "management" - I assume that to mean degradation/wear. And Merc have shown that they are in the top 2, along with Red Bull, in terms of degradation this year.

Blistering is an entirely separate matter from wear.

[GPR-A]

And as regards tyre pressures? All cars had to run with the same pressures.

That's not the point, and I'm pretty sure you know that!

Every team designs their car to work within a given range of numerous factors including tire pressures. The tire pressures for this weekend were far hire than they normally are.

No one outside of Mercedes will know for sure what tire pressure range Mercedes designed their car for. However in my opinion they didn't do anything set up wise to negate the high pressures.

So you are saying that all other teams were able to plan for the higher tyre pressuresa but merc were not able to? There is no evidence that tyre pressure itself was the problem. All teams had the same info.

How do you know? Mercedes doesn't operate with great margin for variables. Increase in tyre pressure probably wasn't part of their simulations which yielded them a race setup for this weekend. Their most optimum performance comes with that inability to accommodate the unexpected variable, which probably an acceptable compromise for them.

[dans79]

So you are saying that all other teams were able to plan for the higher tyre pressuresa but merc were not able to?

No one planned for them, every team has to decide during the design phase of their car what criteria they think they will be expected to race under during the season.

There is no evidence that tyre pressure itself was the problem. All teams had the same info.

That's your opinion, and one that I think is wrong. Track an ambient temperature was higher than last week, The compounds were softer, and the tire pressures were substantially higher.

There is only so much any team can do to cope with changes that can't be forseen prior to the beginning of the season.

[Big Tea]

Anyone know when the teams were told what the pressures would be? Surely they ran at this pressure from FP1 on at least?

[dans79]

Anyone know when the teams were told what the pressures would be? Surely they ran at this pressure from FP1 on at least?

In past years when pirelli changed tire pressures regularly, they would examine the tires after FP1 and fp2, And then announce the changes Saturday morning before FP3.

I'm not sure what they did for this race, because there's almost no one in the paddock to tell us! The few people that are in the paddock are all part of the mainstream media outlets and they're more interested in building hype And drama for the casual fan, than giving technical detail.

[GPR-A]

Anyone know when the teams were told what the pressures would be? Surely they ran at this pressure from FP1 on at least?

It was announced on 5th of August, Wednesday.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... oVh5n.html

[Wynters]

What was the deal with Hulk's final pitstop? It looked to me like RP wanted to swap the positions so daddy's boy was in front?

It certainly did Stroll's WDC score some good, but I strongly suspect Hulk would've kept Albon behind. Team points sacrificed for driver points...