2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

[TimW]

And as I've pointed out multiple times today, when someone says tire "management" - I assume that to mean degradation/wear. And Merc have shown that they are in the top 2, along with Red Bull, in terms of degradation this year.

Blistering is an entirely separate matter from wear.

Blistering is just as much part of tyre management. It is how well you control temperature, temperature distribution and wear, to get the maximum (optimum) performance and life out of your tyres.

The fact that these tyres blister easily is a known fact that teams need to deal with. Ferarri/Leclerc showed that getting an optimum can give unexpected results.

[GPR-A]

And as I've pointed out multiple times today, when someone says tire "management" - I assume that to mean degradation/wear. And Merc have shown that they are in the top 2, along with Red Bull, in terms of degradation this year.

Blistering is an entirely separate matter from wear.

Blistering is just as much part of tyre management. It is how well you control temperature, temperature distribution and wear, to get the maximum (optimum) performance and life out of your tyres.

The fact that these tyres blister easily is a known fact that teams need to deal with. Ferarri/Leclerc showed that getting an optimum can give unexpected results.

The fact that fast cars win championships is a known fact that teams need to deal with. Mercedes/Hamilton have shown that building strong cars can win you championships. Still people complain of lack of competition. Not sure why.

[Big Tea]

Anyone know when the teams were told what the pressures would be? Surely they ran at this pressure from FP1 on at least?

It was announced on 5th of August, Wednesday.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... oVh5n.html

Thanks. So the teams had time to run sims then, but obviously without knowing the temperature.

[TNTHead]

Absolutely. But as Hamilton pointed out during the race (which is amazing he could notice this visually while driving an F1 car at speed around Silverstone), it looked like the Red Bulls' in-race tire pressures were lower than the Mercs'.

And Mercedes confirmed this in their debrief today (i.e., Mercs' tires continued to balloon during the race, exceeding a point where stabilization of the pressures was irrelevant, as the damage had already been done). Merc were absolutely fine with the high starting pressures, initially.

They were absolutely fine in their race runs during FP, too. But today, during the race, their tire pressures kept rising and rising, instead of eventually stabilizing and remaining at a manageable level. And that is what the team will investigate this week. Even though it is unlikely that we will see starting pressures that high again this season, whatever they will uncover will no doubt be relevant to events with high track temperatures, which probably played the second most significant role in the runaway pressures during the raise (aside from starting pressure).

You state Ham comments as facts

Lets get this straight: we are only guessing. To me Merc / Ham was only trying to blame someone else for their own failure, and in the same time suggesting that RB was driving with lower pressures, which would be very hard to achieve as the tires are delivered by pirelli. Getting around that would be difficult and obviously illegal.That was an unfounded claim by Ham, nothing more.

The tyre pressures were raised only 2 psi and now world has come upside because of this? Last wednesday it was already clear that would be the pressures, so Merc had any time to recalculate the desired DF levels, suspension setup whatsoever.

Lets face it: this time another team than almighty Merc did for once a better job, let them learn from it and proceed for the next round.

[holeindalip]

Absolutely. But as Hamilton pointed out during the race (which is amazing he could notice this visually while driving an F1 car at speed around Silverstone), it looked like the Red Bulls' in-race tire pressures were lower than the Mercs'.

And Mercedes confirmed this in their debrief today (i.e., Mercs' tires continued to balloon during the race, exceeding a point where stabilization of the pressures was irrelevant, as the damage had already been done). Merc were absolutely fine with the high starting pressures, initially.

They were absolutely fine in their race runs during FP, too. But today, during the race, their tire pressures kept rising and rising, instead of eventually stabilizing and remaining at a manageable level. And that is what the team will investigate this week. Even though it is unlikely that we will see starting pressures that high again this season, whatever they will uncover will no doubt be relevant to events with high track temperatures, which probably played the second most significant role in the runaway pressures during the raise (aside from starting pressure).

You state Ham comments as facts

Lets get this straight: we are only guessing. To me Merc / Ham was only trying to blame someone else for their own failure, and in the same time suggesting that RB was driving with lower pressures, which would be very hard to achieve as the tires are delivered by pirelli. Getting around that would be difficult and obviously illegal.That was an unfounded claim by Ham, nothing more.

The tyre pressures were raised only 2 psi and now world has come upside because of this? Last wednesday it was already clear that would be the pressures, so Merc had any time to recalculate the desired DF levels, suspension setup whatsoever.

Lets face it: this time another team than almighty Merc did for once a better job, let them learn from it and proceed for the next round.

2 psi? Where are you getting your info the fronts got raised like 6 psi I believe and the rears by 2

[TNTHead]

Absolutely. But as Hamilton pointed out during the race (which is amazing he could notice this visually while driving an F1 car at speed around Silverstone), it looked like the Red Bulls' in-race tire pressures were lower than the Mercs'.

And Mercedes confirmed this in their debrief today (i.e., Mercs' tires continued to balloon during the race, exceeding a point where stabilization of the pressures was irrelevant, as the damage had already been done). Merc were absolutely fine with the high starting pressures, initially.

They were absolutely fine in their race runs during FP, too. But today, during the race, their tire pressures kept rising and rising, instead of eventually stabilizing and remaining at a manageable level. And that is what the team will investigate this week. Even though it is unlikely that we will see starting pressures that high again this season, whatever they will uncover will no doubt be relevant to events with high track temperatures, which probably played the second most significant role in the runaway pressures during the raise (aside from starting pressure).

You state Ham comments as facts

Lets get this straight: we are only guessing. To me Merc / Ham was only trying to blame someone else for their own failure, and in the same time suggesting that RB was driving with lower pressures, which would be very hard to achieve as the tires are delivered by pirelli. Getting around that would be difficult and obviously illegal.That was an unfounded claim by Ham, nothing more.

The tyre pressures were raised only 2 psi and now world has come upside because of this? Last wednesday it was already clear that would be the pressures, so Merc had any time to recalculate the desired DF levels, suspension setup whatsoever.

Lets face it: this time another team than almighty Merc did for once a better job, let them learn from it and proceed for the next round.

2 psi? Where are you getting your info the fronts got raised like 6 psi I believe and the rears by 2

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... oVh5n.html

Already post Just two post above.

[TNTHead]

[quote=TNTHead post_id=917245

2 psi? Where are you getting your info the fronts got raised like 6 psi I believe and the rears by 2

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... oVh5n.html

Already posted, just two posts above.
[/quote]

[TNTHead]

2 psi? Where are you getting your info the fronts got raised like 6 psi I believe and the rears by 2

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... oVh5n.html

Already posted, just two posts above.

[tangodjango]

And as I've pointed out multiple times today, when someone says tire "management" - I assume that to mean degradation/wear. And Merc have shown that they are in the top 2, along with Red Bull, in terms of degradation this year.

Blistering is an entirely separate matter from wear.

Blistering is just as much part of tyre management. It is how well you control temperature, temperature distribution and wear, to get the maximum (optimum) performance and life out of your tyres.

The fact that these tyres blister easily is a known fact that teams need to deal with. Ferarri/Leclerc showed that getting an optimum can give unexpected results.

The fact that fast cars win championships is a known fact that teams need to deal with. Mercedes/Hamilton have shown that building strong cars can win you championships. Still people complain of lack of competition. Not sure why.

Thanks for this comment and epic shutdown!

[ispano6]

Wow, some people just can't accept that Mercedes lost fair and square. Can't blame the weather either.

[Just_a_fan]

What causes wear like that? Usually wear on the center of the tire indicates an overinflated tire, at least on normal cars, I imagine F1 cars are still cars and the tires still comply with the laws of physics. Inner wear can be caused by camber, but the prescribed limit is too low cause that kind of wear, that kind of wear is seen with a lot of toe out. As the inside the the tire is scrubbing along the straights and even worse in the corners.

I wonder if DAS helped at all during the race, and why the rears were the problem tire for Mercedes this time around?

The rears were blistering in the middle of the tyre face, presumably from being overinflated.

Then why do the higher pressures affect Mercedes and not Red Bull? They're all working with the same tire pressures, having more downforce one would think it would be easier to preserve the tires. Hamilton mentioned that their pressure rise must have been greater than on the RB. In cooler temperatures, air is denser, and naturally tire pressures will be lower, cooler track temperatures will also help keep tire pressures down.

Mercedes admitted it wasn't going to have the pace to win today, do you think that has to do with how they heat up their rear tires? Maybe something that works for qualifying to get the pressures in exactly the right window? Perhaps it can give one lap pace advantage in addition to their engine, however the combination of higher pressures and higher temperatures leads to their qualifying magic to be a hindrance in the race.

There has been a lot of controversy regarding Mercedes brake ducts, so perhaps that has something to do with how they work their rear tires?

I wish I knew.

I've had an evening of wine with friends. So the reality is that none of it actually matters compared to the reality for those in the Lebanon,or other places under extreme stress. Not so far as how the world works, anyway.

I'm just glad that things likes a motor race are important to me.

[Mamba]

Wow, some people just can't accept that Mercedes lost fair and square. Can't blame the weather either.

Well said. When Mercedes dominates it is all "it's up to the others to catch up" but when for once in a while they are outperformed by another team it is all excuses. They knew all the details of the tyre changes & pressure increases at the same time as other teams. RB's prep, car set-up and with a bit of added luck was just better come race day. Matter of fact it made the race. Good strategy out front and an actual fight for the lead that isn't decided on a Saturday. Good stuff.

Barcelona is usually close to a snooze fest thanks to that chicane at the end of the lap ruining most of the only realistic overtaking possibility on the straight, but perhaps the racing gods deliver us some unexpected delights again.

[Just_a_fan]

Watched the race until about halfway or two thirds in, fell asleep, woke up again on the penultimate lap when Verstappen overtook Hamilton.

It was a good nap.

[zibby43]

Absolutely. But as Hamilton pointed out during the race (which is amazing he could notice this visually while driving an F1 car at speed around Silverstone), it looked like the Red Bulls' in-race tire pressures were lower than the Mercs'.

And Mercedes confirmed this in their debrief today (i.e., Mercs' tires continued to balloon during the race, exceeding a point where stabilization of the pressures was irrelevant, as the damage had already been done). Merc were absolutely fine with the high starting pressures, initially.

They were absolutely fine in their race runs during FP, too. But today, during the race, their tire pressures kept rising and rising, instead of eventually stabilizing and remaining at a manageable level. And that is what the team will investigate this week. Even though it is unlikely that we will see starting pressures that high again this season, whatever they will uncover will no doubt be relevant to events with high track temperatures, which probably played the second most significant role in the runaway pressures during the raise (aside from starting pressure).

You state Ham comments as facts

Lets get this straight: we are only guessing. To me Merc / Ham was only trying to blame someone else for their own failure, and in the same time suggesting that RB was driving with lower pressures, which would be very hard to achieve as the tires are delivered by pirelli. Getting around that would be difficult and obviously illegal.That was an unfounded claim by Ham, nothing more.

The tyre pressures were raised only 2 psi and now world has come upside because of this? Last wednesday it was already clear that would be the pressures, so Merc had any time to recalculate the desired DF levels, suspension setup whatsoever.

Lets face it: this time another team than almighty Merc did for once a better job, let them learn from it and proceed for the next round.

Hamilton wasn't saying that Red Bull were starting with lower minimum pressures than required. During the broadcast, Karun erroneously assumed that was what Lewis was implying with his radio transmission.

The minimum starting pressures are monitored by Pirelli. That was a brainless comment by Karun.

Hamilton was pointing out the fact that visually, Verstappen's tires weren't as ballooned up during the race.

Which is actually a compliment to RB's car and Verstappen for being able to handle the increased minimum pressures/softer tires/higher temperatures better, as their car didn't deal with runaway pressures during the race.

Irrespective of the starting pressures, as a tire warms up, the air pressure inside increases (above the minimum pressures). Hamilton was simply communicating that Verstappen's tires looked less inflated than his, which is useful information to his team. It indicated that Merc was having a problem with escalating temperatures and, subsequently, pressures, whereas the RB was not.

On a side note, you must've missed when I posted this:

"Red Bull didn't luck into the win. You have to build a car that is capable of capitalizing upon today's unique conditions, and then when those conditions arise, you have to execute. They did both."

The RB fans are seeing ghosts today. Merc has a faster car, on balance. Full stop. Red Bull had the faster car today, because they dealt with the conditions/tires better. They deserved to win.

Why is it that no one can discuss Merc's problems today without some of the RB fan crew assuming that any and all such discussion is trying to trivialize Red Bull's performance today?

[Manoah2u]

Wow, some people just can't accept that Mercedes lost fair and square. Can't blame the weather either.

It's funny, they lost fair and square, Max was untouchable, and i'm sure Honda delivered as promised.
It's game on now. Imagine if Max didn't get a DNF in the first GP, I don't think he would have managed a win, but 2nd would have been possible, that would have been 18 points more in the bank, which would get him 95 points total and just 12 points short of Lewis.
If RedBull had not pitted Max last week and 'taken the gamble', they would have WON that GP and Max would have had 7 points more too, so to be fair, it is very reasonable to concider Max could be in P2 in the standings with 102 points, but that means Lewis would have had 7 points less if Max would have grabbed the win the last GP, and that would actually mean Max would be P1 in the standings with 102 points and Lewis P2 with 100 points.

The thing to concider is that this simply means that Mercedes is not at all that dominant for the 2020 season as 'we' all imagined.

Unfortunately for Max, that's not how things went down, and he's 30 points short instead.
Next race is Spain and if it's hot again, Mercedes might finds themselves getting a repeat from last GP.

What's clear aswell though is how much Bottas clearly lacks once again compared to Lewis and Max.
Bottas is even 4 points short of Max and P3 now, 34 points short of his TEAMMATE, despite winning the 1st GP.

It's gonna be an exciting season!
Let's hope NEITHER Max or Lewis contracts Corona (like Perez), that would RUIN the 2020 season.